Your table is YOUR table.

[Micah Sweet]

Likewise unlike elder folks, some of these products when looked with refreshed eyes & in the company of younger ppls, did not age well. Pare away what is cringe and don't allow stuff like that to ossify.

Worth noting that not everyone has the same line on cringe, so some will pare down what others think is still good, and vice versa.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Worth noting that not everyone has the same line on cringe, so some will pare down what others think is still good, and vice versa.

That's not unique to older people either - younger people have wildly different ideas re: what's cringe and what isn't. You and your table have to make their own minds up.

 

[Gradine]

Its not about home tables. It really isnt. Its about controlling hearts and minds, and the future of the game.

Hard as it is to say, but this really is what it comes down to. D&D, hell all RPGs, like all media, are a reflection of the popular culture, and there are many people, on all possible sides of all possible issues, that have a vested interest in seeing that popular culture steered in one or another direction.

And this forum, despite explicitly being apolitical, does also take an explicit stance in favor of one of those particular directions, and it is, quite frankly, the right direction to take. Much of popular culture has been lurching in that same direction, including the TTRPG hobby, and D&D itself, albeit in fits and starts. And while yes, it is easy to insist that those changes don't apply to one's own table, it is a lot harder to accept that this direction is impacting this thing that they (used to) love.

The thing is, we're living in a bit of a mini-era of popular backlash to that particular direction, and there is definite evidence of that direction turning backwards in a variety of areas within the popular culture. For our purposes, this has had two significant impacts:
1) It has emboldened those who wish to said direction turned around even further to advocate for that.
2) Those of us in support of said direction now get to experience the existential* dread of watching a culture moving in the "wrong" direction.

There are, obviously, opportunities for greater empathy and understanding, if not outright agreement, that are the result. The barrier to that has always been, of course, that existential dread. Will we ever overcome that? Or will we continue to argue about evil orcs and "race" until the end of our days?

You know what the answer to that question is, unfortunately.


*It is worth noting that in this particular instance, for many of us, said dread is rather less "existential" and more "actual danger", but diving too deeply into that would be verboten in these parts.

 

[Scribe]

Hard as it is to say, but this really is what it comes down to. D&D, hell all RPGs, like all media, are a reflection of the popular culture, and there are many people, on all possible sides of all possible issues, that have a vested interest in seeing that popular culture steered in one or another direction.

Yep, and I dont see the harm in having this be admit, and open, and accepted.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You know what the answer to that question is, unfortunately.

I honestly think the Orc thing is already blowing over, and has basically been shrugged off. I think the few people who cared to like, crazy levels have moved on to OSR games, and whilst some other people might have preferences they realize they can just make their game be like that.

Hard as it is to say, but this really is what it comes down to. D&D, hell all RPGs, like all media, are a reflection of the popular culture, and there are many people, on all possible sides of all possible issues, that have a vested interest in seeing that popular culture steered in one or another direction.

I do think one needs to accept that the only way to have influence here is to "be the change you want to see", if the change isn't going the way you want here.

TTRPGs aren't like, TV or movies or w/e where you can't do that. If you want a TTRPG that pushes in a particular direction, is about a particular subject, just write it!

Part of the reason TTRPGs continue to go in what I would regard as a positive direction (the same one you allude to re: ENworld) is that simply so many creators are making cool RPGs in that direction, and even edgy OSR stuff tends to be angled that way (c.f. Shadowdark) for the most part. And a lot of those creators and companies are really small, but they've clearly influenced WotC, and not by some malign powerful hand but just because they're forward-looking and seem to be doing the right thing.

 

[Reynard]

Some of you are supporting my point for me: the moral imperatives (even the good ones) are not relevant to what you do at your table, nor should they be. This need to tie the cultural movement of the hobby to ones own play is misguided, I believe. I don't think people should feel bad for liking what they like -- especially since we know that the stuff we liked when we were young are most likely to be powerful for us even now. (I know not everyone here is over 40, but the vast majority are.) As @Umbran put it, enjoy your CDs and let the kids stream their newfangled tunes.

To put more of a point on it: modern RPGs are generally not for us, any more than modern music is. If we happen to like it -- great, that is more money for the record companies and artists. But if we don't -- well, that is why they keep making Best Of albums and having reunion tours.

(Also, to beat the analogy to death, this makes a game like Shadowdark a band like Wolfmother, that is modern but sounds like something from the 70s.)

 

[Professor Murder]

What’s at issue is that using language such as “controlling hearts and minds” is very coded and inflammatory, especially in the current climate.

 

[Scribe]

What’s at issue is that using language such as “controlling hearts and minds” is very coded and inflammatory, especially in the current climate.

If it's code, I don't know what it parses to, or how else you want it said.

I think have an Orc statblock in a game, as friend, foe, or otherwise is fine.

Others would make it seem like a moral failing.

Both ends are arguing to control the narrative for their own selfish reasons.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I tend to agree that (like it or lump it) a whole lot of internet discussion over fandom ends up being a competition for the hearts, minds, opinions, or team identity decisions of the rest of the community. Whether that's "controlling" hearts and minds (and whether it is okay) depends probably on what you mean by control (having successful influence, or having uncontestable decision-making authority).

It's not unlike non-fandom internet discussions. Just the same way that (the proverbial) you know winning* the political argument with FacelessName42069 over on ReddiTwitBook won't actually change their position, but you do it anyways. Mostly it communicates to those others out there that already agree with your position that you too are there and that therefore your faction is meaningful. I always used to think it was wasting one's time at best and peeing into the wind at worst, but real world politics bending to online narratives has left me unsure.
*or 'winning'

I'd like to think that the discussions here serve more purpose than that (especially the ones about how best to conduct one's games, handle personal conflict in the gaming group, etc.). However, the 537,000th edition war or martials-v-casters or orc alignment thread? Yeah, it probably is just a running battle of 'hurray for our side.'

 

[Lanefan]

Then they should start looking at it like the music industry. Times change. New music comes out, and since s person's musical tastes are typically set when they are young, the new stuff won't match the old tastes. Find your oldies station and leave the kids alone, man.

To chase this analogy down a bit, what if I want to hear new music* in the older style rather than hearing over and over again the same relatively few songs the oldies station have on high rotation?

In D&D terms, this is the same as asking what if I want new modules* for 1e rather than the same old ones I've run over and over again?

* - in both cases, assume for these purposes I can't just make my own and am restricted to commercial productions.