Your take on charismatic half-orcs

[Mark]

You fail to address the central issue of the logic. If the attribute includes the effects of physical beauty or attractiveness, then you will get variation in the attribute dependant upon who views the character, what the character wears, etc. The core rules include no such changes. So the dependance upon beauty does not exist.

The central issue of any logical argument is its premise. You would have us first ignore what is written (as pointed out above) to then follow your argument to its conclusion. My problem is not with the logic of your argument. My problem is with your premise.

It clearly states that the Ability score Charisma includes in its parameters physical attractiveness. It states this explicitedly. It allows sufficient leeway for DMs to highlight or lessen the impact of that in their individual campaigns. It leaves options, which I believe is wise.

Because it does not strictly enforce using physical attractiveness as part of the make-up of Charisma by handcuffing DMs with additional rules, your stance seems to be that physical attractiveness has no bearing whatsoever and should be ignored. I disagree. I prefer options.

...presses remote again and turns briefcase into an open window...

 

[Al]

The point is that Charisma is an *amalgamation* of all factors listed in the PHB. Physical attractiveness is quite patently an aspect. A beautiful but personally objectionable character may well be less charismatic than an ugly but charming one; but a beautiful and charming character will tend to be more charismatic than both.

IMC, I deliberately set an off-shoot Appearance score, determined separately from the other statistic and with value (3d6+Cha mod). You can be really unattractive and yet be charismatic (Cha 18, App 7) or vice versa (App 15, Cha 4). However, the point is that the two do and must coincide.

As for the half-orc, up to you. With a Charisma of (now) 18, I'd suggest that he is an amalgamation. There is no reason why you cannot be an attractive half-orc, though humans may not find you entirely appealing; but then again, why shouldn't they? Elves probably regard humans as big, brutish and hairy, but elf/human matches seem to be no problem. Charisma is a matter of interpretation, but I'd say in the high regions (18+), the character is good-looking, charming and has quite a presence.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I once submitted a fat elf sorcerer for a PbEM game.

Really fat. Over 200 pounds, and not quite 5 feet tall.

I asked the DMs if they wanted to apply mechanical effects - reduced Dex, or circumstance penalties to Dex-based skills, or an 'Armor Check Penalty', or something like that.

"Don't worry about it," they told me. "It's not really important, we'll just roleplay it."

No problem.

And then they told me that there was no way he could have a Charisma higher than 14.

(I had him as a 17 base, +1 one from a level-up, +1 from a familiar.)

Powerful personality? Check.
'Way with words'? Check.
Indefinable 'presence'? Check.
Natural ease with others? Check.
X-factor? Check.

Oh, but you're fat, so let's drop that Cha a few points.

One of these DMs, of course, was the same one who told us that a Paladin/Rogue multiclass was an impossibility, because "Rogues are thieves".

-Hyp.

 

[Sejs]

And then they told me that there was no way he could have a Charisma higher than 14.

Tell him John Goodman wanted you to relay a message to him: He says to blow it out your ear, Mister DM.


^_^

 

[Mark]

There may be a good Winston Churchill quote on the subject...

 

[Tiefling]

IMC, I deliberately set an off-shoot Appearance score, determined separately from the other statistic and with value (3d6+Cha mod). You can be really unattractive and yet be charismatic (Cha 18, App 7) or vice versa (App 15, Cha 4). However, the point is that the two do and must coincide.

How do you handle changes in the standards of beauty depending on personal differences and cultural differences?

 

[Hypersmurf]

There may be a good Winston Churchill quote on the subject...

My final appeal before I gave up and changed the stat on the sheet to a 14 was to email them a picture of the character alongside a portrait of Churchill.

Bah.

-Hyp.

 

[Mark]

My final appeal before I gave up and changed the stat on the sheet to a 14 was to email them a picture of the character alongside a portrait of Churchill.

Bah.

-Hyp.

Great minds think alike, Hyp.

 

[kiznit]

The diversity of orc-dom - as examined by the premiere D&D concept artist, Todd Lockwood:

Some good-lookin', and some not.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I even suggested perhaps a Circumstance penalty on social interactions with people who find fat elves disgusting.

They almost went for that, but decided it made more sense to cap the stat.

I just couldn't figure it. What happens if he casts Alter Self to make himself look like a 100 pound elf? Does his Cha jump four or five points for the duration?

And why should being fat lower the Save DCs of his spells?

And how can they wave aside the idea of penalties to Tumble checks, for example, to a character who waddles everywhere with "Oh, we'll just roleplay it", but feel that there needs to be a mechanical representation of the effect on Cha?

Aargh. I'm glad that game folded early, to be honest.

-Hyp.