You've got physics in my D&D!

[soulcat]

Well, with rulings like the one you've just mentioned, no wonder.

"Oh, by the way, I've changed the rules so you're just dead, no save."

Yeah, thanks GM.

Of course my next character would be a sorceror or wizard who specialises in denying foes their saves against spells.

After all - a lightning bolt moves faster than you could possibly anticipate, right (IIRC, it's near the speed of light...)? So noone gets a save against it?

Fireball is just one example of a spell that niggles at me. Not a ruling that I have made. Incidently I don't make rulings I discuss options, and I never change the rules in a way that would be instantly detremental to the players, without discussing it with them at length.

Thank you for making assumptions and being quite rude though! I always like that!

 

[Numion]

Fireball is just one example of a spell that niggles at me. Not a ruling that I have made. Incidently I don't make rulings I discuss options, and I never change the rules in a way that would be instantly detremental to the players, without discussing it with them at length.

Actually I think that the option you discuss would be very much in favor of the players. 90% monsters are naked, while PCs are naked 0.1% of time.

I too think that the rudeness was uncalled for, but ask yourself would you really consider such an option in the case it favored the PCs? For example, in a climatic against a White Dragon, would you suddenly deny it reflex saves because fireballs were thrown at it dead center, and the dragon was naked? I'm trying not to make assumptions about your style, but I know how I would think ..

FWIW I usually try not to deny the PCs their use of special abilities and what not, at least not for realism. I used to be too stingy with sneak attacks and such, but dammit the PCs bought the abilities and it's fun to use them.

 

[soulcat]

As I said when I first started talking about this Fireball is a spell that has always confusticated me.

I have no solution to the problems I see in my head, and even if I did it doesn't mean I would implement them. I just don't see a reflex save as being right. I would be happier with a fortitude, or both a relflex and fortitude (instead of just a reflex) if your at the epi centre.

The whole naked thing has never come up for me, but if it did I would say that a dragon isn't naked (as it gets a natural armour bonus). I just mentioned the naked thing cos I'm built that way!

 

[Numion]

As I said when I first started talking about this Fireball is a spell that has always confusticated me.

I have no solution to the problems I see in my head, and even if I did it doesn't mean I would implement them. I just don't see a reflex save as being right. I would be happier with a fortitude, or both a relflex and fortitude (instead of just a reflex) if your at the epi centre.

It's not a handgrenade or a cannon shell. Every spot within the area of effect is of similar heat and pressure, where as in a normal explosion pressure and heat is higher in the center. Fireball has no center, if you will.

The whole naked thing has never come up for me, but if it did I would say that a dragon isn't naked (as it gets a natural armour bonus). I just mentioned the naked thing cos I'm built that way!

Most PCs also have natural armor

 

[soulcat]

you see that makes me even worse. If every point in the blast is the same pressure and heat, then you should no way get a reflex save if your in the centre of a big blast. It should definitely be Fortitude.

Of course, like I said thats my feeling in my head, The thing is my group would be split 50-50 on that change cos half of them have high fortitude and half have high reflex. So, I'll keep it as it is, but a reflex save still doesn't seem right to me.

 

[soulcat]

aaaaah double post!

 

[Gez]

All this thinkemefying will just confabrulate things.

Fireball is a spell that has always confusticated me.

The spirit of Lewis Carrol lives on!

 

[Macbeth]

I don't have any good stories that I can think of about getting Physics in my D&D, but I really wish I could get D&D in my Physics. It would make the class so much easier, and I wouldn't have to take time away from Halo 2 to study for my test this wednesday.

 

[painandgreed]

Lightening bolt: The bolt may move t near the speed of light, but it could be that the charge is building up during the casting of the spell for long enough to have people react to it. Our part got saved this way once. We kicked open the door and wizard was casting a spell, we felt the charge building up (hair standing up on end, etc.) and the fighter (using probalby more physics knowledge than his 6 Int 6 Wis should have) pushed everybody behind him and stuck his sword in the floor, grounding himself. He took the entire bolt himself with no save but kept everybody else in the party from getting hit.

Old Spells: I'd have to dig through my old 1E books, but some of the wording of the spells were in such a way that they could be taken advantage of if you knew your physics. Push IIRC gave a certain conditions that somebody figured out could be used on a small object in a tube which would result in a sufficient speed to make a pistol or rifle. We had a big arguement over the volume and weight caused by rock to mud spell cast on an outcropping above us to take out some orcs. It took care of the orcs but the ensuing landslide would have wiped out the party if the DM (geology major) and caster (math major) hadn't come to an agreement after an hour of arguement that the spell had been targeted on the surface and thus halving the volume of rock turned into mud. the resulting landslide only did minor damage and broke some of our wagons then.

 

[ruleslawyer]

soulcat: Think of it this way. Fireball has "uniform" heat and no pressure, right? OK. So it's not an explosion, then. Instead, it's just a ball-shaped, instantaneous, contained combustion. Think of the balrog scene in the Fellowship of the Ring film, and imagine that aura of fire being contained in a neat spherical shape. Clearly, there are flames and there are areas with, well, slightly less flame. So, in that case, we can say that a fireball is NOT uniform in terms of heat; there are hot pockets and cold pockets. A Reflex save just determines whether you blunder right into the hottest pockets. Likewise, evasion is skilfully ducking into the coldest pocket.