Zombie Minions are too weak

[DimitriX]

Maybe the zombie minions just need more brrrraaaaaiiiiinnnnnsssss!!!!

 

[The_Pugilist]

My bet is that it is a misprint and they are supposed to be level 1.

 

[Cadfan]

Hmm.

What's the EXP on the zombie minion? How does it compare with the goblin minion?

I think its fine for a level 3 zombie minion to be less powerful than a level 1 goblin minion, since they're trying to accomplish two different things. Goblin minions are trying to accomplish "bunch of sneaky little rotters," while zombie minions are trying to accomplish "ridiculously huge horde of the undead."

So it would be ok for a level 3 zombie minion to be weaker than the level 1 goblin minion, as long as there was some advice queuing you to recognize that you should use more minions than usual if the minions are zombies.

 

[Stalker0]

As people have noted, the zombie does have a better hit and damage (and for creatures who may only get one attack in, that's important) and darkvision is a big advantage in the new edition if you set it up right.

That said, I think level 3 is a bit high for these guys, I think a level 2 would work better.

Also, in general I think the better minions are the ones that get gangup bonuses.

 

[Ulthwithian]

I think it's also the immunity issue. As someone pointed out, these minions are completely immune to any Poison-based powers, including AoE powers. I don't know how they're used, but consider that they can be placed as the anvil to a Poison Fume trap's hammer. The Goblin minions would simply die to the trap.

If immunities are to be rare in 4E, there needs to be a stiff price for them, in term of 'monster design points'. As such, I think the Zombies are fine.

 

[Spatula]

So it would be ok for a level 3 zombie minion to be weaker than the level 1 goblin minion, as long as there was some advice queuing you to recognize that you should use more minions than usual if the minions are zombies.

That doesn't make any sense. You build encounters by adding up the XP of monsters to reach some total. If anything, you'd have less zombies than goblins because the zombies are worth more XP. A lvl 1 minion is 25 XP; a level 3 minion is 38 XP.

 

[Scribble]

Has anyone tested things out?

Take a few PCs and pit them against the zombies... then refresh and pit them against the goblins.

Sometimes things look one way on paper, but play out a different way. Not saying thats how it is here, but worth a look.

 

[Cadfan]

Read my whole post. I'm arguing that if zombies are special level 3 minions that only cost maybe 30 xp, it would make sense.

I can see designing a minion type monster that has the same damage as a regular minion of that level, but with half the durability. Then you could use twice as many.

 

[Stalker0]

I think it's also the immunity issue. As someone pointed out, these minions are completely immune to any Poison-based powers, including AoE powers. I don't know how they're used, but consider that they can be placed as the anvil to a Poison Fume trap's hammer. The Goblin minions would simply die to the trap.

I agree that zombies and a poison trap would have great synergy. However, you can't base the zombie's level on that one instance.

Part of a dm's responsibility is to recognize that certain combinations of monsters are going to gain an extra benefit than you would normally gauge by the XP. For example, having a bridge over lava would be scary with any monsters, but if you had some monsters immune to fire that would probably be even worse!!

Immunities should only be a factor in a creature's level if its a general immunity the party will throw at them. For example, a creature with weapon resist 5 has a definite advantage against most adventuring groups. Poison immunity is certainly useful, but I haven't seen a lot of pc poison powers to suggest that's going to be a common weapon.

Now the factor that the zombie has darkvision is a nice general ability that would see use in tons of situations. The poison immunity is a tool the dm can use, but just as likely will not. If he does though, he should take into account that synergy might have extra results.

 

[Stalker0]

Read my whole post. I'm arguing that if zombies are special level 3 minions that only cost maybe 30 xp, it would make sense.

I can see designing a minion type monster that has the same damage as a regular minion of that level, but with half the durability. Then you could use twice as many.

Level and XP are linked at the hip. If zombies are designed to be thrown in hoards (even more so than normal minions) then they should have a lower level, and therefore lower xp.