Zombies! New Dungeoncraft article up

[WhatGravitas]

Why don't zombies eat each other? And, if a ghoul finds zombies, will he try to eat them? Will they fight back?

Ghouls vs. Zombies! It's like Ninjas vs. Pirates, again! Arr... - I meant Braaaaains!

And that's the reason why zombies don't eat each other: Ninjas only flip out and kill non-ninjas!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Zombies don't have brains; they eat brains -- get it?

And Ghouls must feast on living flesh ... not decaying dripping flesh.

I like the vision of ghouls as lithe animalistic things ... while a zombie might leave an arm lying around and not notice.

<BREAK>

The 4E paradigm: Pirate Zombies v. Ghoul Ninjas, vying for control of Dino Island!

 

[Rechan]

And Ghouls must feast on living flesh ... not decaying dripping flesh.

Eh?

Ghouls eat Dead flesh. They eat carrion - they dig up corpses, rob graves, etc.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Eh?

Ghouls eat Dead flesh. They eat carrion - they dig up corpses, rob graves, etc.

Not my ghouls. They have a more refined diet. Carrion is only for when the flesh of the living is unavailable. But Zombie flesh? Never. It's probably the grave mold.

 

[Stone Dog]

More appropriately, I think a ghoul that is alive becomes a Wendigo.

Wendigos are pretty similar, but different. I think a ghoul is a humanoid who went so completely decadent and insane that they became something vile, malevolent and so close to being undead that it hardly matters that they still have functioning organs. It has its old skills and old memories and can remember friends (might even be helpful) and enemies, but the personality changes and becomes cruel and apathetic. It is a template in my head.

A wendigo is a demon of ice, gluttony and hatred that can possess other creatures. Creatures who have already turned to cannibalism are favorite victims, but anybody will do in a pinch. It is a seperate monster that only uses your stats while it rebuilds you into its real form. First it is a demon possesion and then it is a complete transformation.

So a ghoul is something that happens to you because you have gone down a sick road of perversion and decadence while a wendigo is something that climbs in your brain and drives you around like a car because it likes your style, but eventually remodels you completely.

Why don't zombies eat each other? And, if a ghoul finds zombies, will he try to eat them? Will they fight back?

Zombies eat the living and unputrified flesh. They are already rotting and are no longer tasty. Ghouls might find zombie meat nice and tender, but having to fight your food is really too much work for the decadent creatures.

If a bunch of ghouls hold down a zombie and start eating it the zombie would probably fight them just like if humans held it down and beat it with sticks, but probably wouldn't recognize that it is being eaten.

 

[Deverash]

Maybe Ghouls will have more lurker-type abilities. Sneak around, jump out from hiding to hit the wizard in the back of shadows, paralyzing him and hauling him off to make a quick snack of back in the shadows.

I know that's what my ghouls are going to be like, even if I have to redesign them from the ground up myself.

 

[Rechan]

A wendigo is a demon of ice, gluttony and hatred that can possess other creatures. Creatures who have already turned to cannibalism are favorite victims, but anybody will do in a pinch. It is a seperate monster that only uses your stats while it rebuilds you into its real form. First it is a demon possesion and then it is a complete transformation.

I don't know. The wendigo I'm familiar with are just "I broke a cardinal taboo, cannibalism, and now the more I eat, the more powerful I get, until I am no longer human."

 

[Stone Dog]

I don't know. The wendigo I'm familiar with are just "I broke a cardinal taboo, cannibalism, and now the more I eat, the more powerful I get, until I am no longer human."

Different Algonquin tribes have slightly different descriptions. From wikipedia "Though descriptions varied somewhat, common to all these cultures was the conception of Wendigos as malevolent, anti-social, and cannibalistic supernatural beings (manitous) of great spiritual power."

The wendigo you are familiar with and the ghouls I love are probably only different by culture and environment.

 

[WyzardWhately]

See, now if they just fix Vampires I'll be happy. I would like vampires that are, y'know, bloodsucking fiends. Get rid of the level-draining slam attack and put the fangs back in there.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I don't understand your reasoning here. I figure that, what the things are wearing aside, all zombies of the same basic size are basically the same. Previous skills and abilities are GONE. A tenth level fighter stripped of gear turned zombie and a 1st level commoner zombie in rags turned zombie should be the same threat.

And they are. The assumption that all humanoids are equal is false though. Looking at the zombie examples now, we have things ranging from kobold and human, which are very similiar, to troglodyte and bugbear, which kick things up a bit.

Zombie trolls don't regenerate, zombie wyverns don't fly or sting and zombie hill giants don't chuck boulders. Anything that isn't walking to food, grabbing food and putting food into its mouth is forgotten, rotted away, made impractical or otherwise not important mechanically.

Eh? The SRD has an example of a wyvern and while it doesn't have the stinger, it can fly. This is a huge issue with winged flying creatures if they all of the sudden become some generic brute: 20 ft. (4 squares; can’t run), fly 60 ft. (poor)

I hope ghouls are templates though, but then I like lovecraft ghouls that are smart enough to keep their tricks after changing into something less human, but no less dangerous.

Heck, sounds more like a race then a template.

Basically I figure if you take two humans of the same stats, but wildly different levels and turn them into something, if the levels don't/shouldn't matter then it isn't a template. I don't think that the previous life of a thing should matter to a zombie. If you turn into one, then you are an implacable foe of all humanoid life with an unending hunger for flesh that is basically indistinguishable from the next one save for cosmetic differences. Bigger ones have slightly more hitpoints than thin ones. Whoop de doo.

The problem has always been assuming that the game mechanics which work for players work the same for monsters. They semi-worked that way in previous editions but with the further split (PCs materal vs DM materal), it just looks like simplification to ease... game mastery.

If I wanted simple games, I wouldn't be playing 3.5 in the first place.