Zombies! New Dungeoncraft article up

[Lurks-no-More]

Cool; looks like I might actually use zombies in 4e! In the previous editions, they've been more or less useless against any party featuring a cleric after the first couple of levels, and even then they were pretty boring. (Incidentally, I'm hoping that you can crit vampires, as well; a stake to the heart!)

Now, if I were designing the 4e, I'd differentiate ghouls from zombies by making them cunning. Zombies come at you, moaning and shuffling, and tear you to shreds if they catch you. Ghouls sneak around, ambush you, and go looking for another way in if you've barred the doors and windows in the ground floor.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I have to wonder how all the people raging about the no-template zombie managed before 3.5.

Made up a lot of monsters and used a lot of supplements from Dragon, Dungeon, and Role Aids.

 

[ThirdWizard]

This is what I want out of zombies.

If I get this at the expense of wyvern zombies, then good!

YMMV.

(Also read post 119.)

 

[Green Knight]

This is what I want out of zombies.

If I get this at the expense of wyvern zombies, then good!

YMMV.

(Also read post 119.)

Wow. I'd hate to be in that guys shoes.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

From the article: If you’re a player, take a moment right now to thank the merciful designers that turn undead is still in the game.

YES! I know I might be in the less-than-vocal minority, but I love the Turn Undead ability. Seeing that it can blast them into powder or hold them at bay is awesome in my eyes.

I really hated tracking fleeing undead and calculating when they'd return, so this seems like an ideal way to handle it to me.

Gonna have that vampire glaring bloody murder over his cape-draped arm...

hehehehehehe. I feel like a kid in a candy story.

This is a BIG thumbs up for me.

 

[Aeolius]

For preference I'd really like ghouls to be alive.

Then what is to become of the spellstitched swarm-shifter emancipated spawn lacedon NPC I've been working on?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

In other words, the rules cease to be adequate and REQUIRE a houserule? That's bad - terrible - game design.

Unless, as has been suggested, monster design has been better systematized and simplified, so that designing brand new monsters on a regular basis is as part of the core 4E experience as applying templates was in 3E. If that's the case, whipping up a flying, fire-breathing zombie with tentacle arms and a trample attack should be pretty easy.

If homebrew monsters are part of the basic design assumptions--and that is, admittedly, still an if--then it makes sense to provide the most generic version as a pregen, and let individual DMs do the customization work using the system that's been provided to make that work easy.

 

[frankthedm]

Result: The only meaningful difference between the graceful elf becoming a zombie and the brutish, boorish half-orc becoming a zombie in 3.5 are their Str and Dex scores, and even those are barely different.

str 15 and str 19 on a CR1/2 that traditionally appears in groups is a significant difference, especially if a two handed weapon is available.

Other than the small amount of time to generate one, the only kink with the 3.5 zombie template was CR. The CR was purely HD based. The creature’s size, potential immunity to turning*, natural armor and damage output had little bearing on CR. Those are variables the 4E system really should not leave unaccounted

*Potential immunity to turning as in how a level 6 cleric has no chance to turn a 20 HD, but CR6, undead barring major rules raping.

From the article: If you’re a player, take a moment right now to thank the merciful designers that turn undead is still in the game.

YES! I know I might be in the less-than-vocal minority, but I love the Turn Undead ability. Seeing that it can blast them into powder or hold them at bay is awesome in my eyes.

I really hated tracking fleeing undead and calculating when they'd return, so this seems like an ideal way to handle it to me.

Gonna have that vampire glaring bloody murder over his cape-draped arm...

hehehehehehe. I feel like a kid in a candy story.

This is a BIG thumbs up for me.

You know the intelligent undead will still run away.

 

[frankthedm]

This is what I want out of zombies.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/ThirdWizard/dead_rising.jpg

May I suggest these? They retail for $10.

Personally, I want to see orc hordes with that many bodies.

 

[The Human Target]

Nah, too many cool undead that can fly.

No one is saying there can't be cool flying undead.

But I have no issue with zombies specifically being unable to fly.

In fact, I think it would help make a zombie wyvern (or whatever) more unique if they didn't fly.