NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

Upper_Krust · Mar 8, 2007

Hiya mate!

Alzrius said:
This leads me to another question: when High Lords create avatars (two divine status lower) and aspects (four divine status lower), does each "level" of High Lord count as a divine status, or not?

For example, if a Triad created an avatar, would that be "merely" a Time Lord, and it's aspect a rank II Demiurge?

No. Remember High Lords are only a doubling of Quintessence. I think you would need a Decad (10 Universal being) before their Avatars would be Demiurge Stage III, and a 100 Universal Being for their Avatars to be Time Lords.

Alzrius said:
Okay, that's what I thought.

Alzrius said:
No, that makes more sense that Time/High Lords can access omnific powers normally. I'm actually glad you've got it that way (though Table 4-2 might need to be a bit clearer in that regard).

So they can but the divisions of Eternal just make things a bit tricky. I am not even sure if Demiurges should be Eternals.

Alzrius said:
On another note, would it adversely affect a fully-formed Time/High Lord if existing mortals or gods within itself managed to gain enough quintessence to become sidereals?

Any individual possessing that amount of quintessence a demiurge might see as a potential threat.

Alzrius · Mar 8, 2007

Upper_Krust said:
No. Remember High Lords are only a doubling of Quintessence. I think you would need a Decad (10 Universal being) before their Avatars would be Demiurge Stage III, and a 100 Universal Being for their Avatars to be Time Lords.

Okay. The thing is that the section on avatars and aspects lays out both the percentage of the deity's total quintessence they use, and the number of divine status dropped as a result. These fit together perfectly, as each divine status is ten-fold up from the preceding one, until you get to High Lords. Someone who looks at Table 2-1 and just applies the "two status lesser" rule for a High Lord's avatar would end up with a Rank III Demiurge, and would probably be confused when he realized that that didn't follow the 10% rule.

I recommend changing the third bullet points under both the Avatar and Aspect headings (page 24). Listing their hit dice is fine, but the part about their divine ranks should be moved to the second bullet point, and the wording should be changed to indicate that this will usually mean that the avatar/aspect will be two/four divine status lower.

Also, the example for Demogorgon's avatar incorrectly calculates the avatar's Strength as being "(6 + 21 + 20)." That should be 7 + 21 + 20, as the paragraph just above it uses the formula of 7 + 1/2 the manifestation's ability score + size modifier.

dante58701 · Mar 8, 2007

I do believe the conversation has just gone way over my head. I leave VSCs to Krusty. Im no mathematician. On a side note...Sammael? What would he be considered? He has demigods for sevants. I'm thinking...Elder One?

Another interesting note...

If Greater Deities are the only deities mortals will have heard of...HTF do we know anything about elder ones and above? I'm confused on that point. Or...is it that only sages would know about such things? If so...are we considered sages by D&D rules. And if we were bound by Cthulhu sanity rules, how insane would we be by now, knowing what we know? Given our ranks in Mythos Lore...we may be fairly upschkuked in the brain.

Pssthpok · Mar 8, 2007

Given that Asmodeus isn't a greater deity, I'd make Sammael no more than a lesser/intermediate.

Alzrius · Mar 8, 2007

Samael is listed as one of the example Demiurges under the listing for that divinity template.

Pssthpok · Mar 8, 2007

Well, there you have it.

Alzrius · Mar 8, 2007

U_K, I've thought about it, and I think maybe that the listings for Type for the divinity templates for Eternals should not grant the Extraplanar subtype. Given that Demiurges and above are intrinsic to the fabric of the universe, having them be Extraplanar seems thematically wrong. Replacing that with the Native subtype would be more appropriate, I think. It'd have virtually no mechanical impact, as they already separately gain freedom from eating, sleeping, breathing, etc. Not having that subtype just means they wouldn't be subject to a few banishing spells and effects.

Also, it's worth noting that mortals (who gain class levels) who ascend further up on the divinity status will face a greater and greater disparity versus Outsiders with natural hit dice. Outsiders will continue to gain base attack bonus and save bonuses with their natural hit dice faster than a mortal would with class levels, to the point that you can have (for example) two First Ones could be vastly different in terms of BAB and saves depending on their origin. Is this something that Ascension should try to rectify?

WarDragon · Mar 8, 2007

Alzrius said:
Samael is listed as one of the example Demiurges under the listing for that divinity template.

Why?

Pssthpok · Mar 9, 2007

Is this something that Ascension should try to rectify?

Uncanny Weapon Focus (page 136)
Good [Save] (page 104)

dante58701 · Mar 9, 2007

Samael is actually listed as one of the evil names of the demi-urge in gnostic mysticism. I just looked it up. Apparently he is the enemy of Metatron as well. I shoulda figured something online would say something about him...or rather it.

I think I would estimate Samael to be a Stage II Demiurge.

NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

Upper_Krust

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Alzrius

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dante58701

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Pssthpok

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Alzrius

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WarDragon

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dante58701

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