So, about Expertise...

Well, assuming the RPG.net thread is correct, Weapon Expertise works something like the following:

* +1 to attacks with all At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers with the Weapon Keyword,
* with 1 weapon group,
* and it increases to +2 at 15th level and +3 at 25th level

There's also an Implement Mastery feat which I'll assume is the same thing for Implement-based powers.

I am also assuming that the +1 to attacks is a named feat bonus, rather than an unnamed bonus like (for example) Nimble Blade.

And, now that it's upon us, I'd like to share & hear some thoughts.

Mine so far - I'm still a bit tentative about it. It's a little on the boring side, and not letting it apply to basic attacks seems kind of random. It's also clearly one of the best feats in the game. Finally, I don't really like how it has no prerequisites. I think every character will get it - maybe not at first, but eventually.

On the other hand... well, like I said, I still don't think it will be an automatic first-level feat choice for everyone. For example, I think several feats - namely Superior Weapon Proficiency and any racial feat that gives weapon bonuses, like Dwarven Weapon Training and Eladrin soldier - are a bit better. I also think Toughness is right about on par, at least with how my games have gone so far.

I also have much less of a problem with Implement Expertise than I do with Weapon Expertise. Casters need something to hit more often.

Finally, I appreciate that this helps the math of the game at higher levels, and appreciate that it's one of those feats which is more valuable to characters with lower attack bonuses than higher ones. (It's a few % better for a character with a 16 attack stat than it is for a character with a 20.)

I'm still a little divided, but now that there are plenty of other solid feat choices, too, I'm not completely unhappy.

Thoughts?

-O

This feat looks like errata disguised as crunch (and poorly done, as it hurts characters who rely on both an implement and a weapon compared to those who use only one). I'm just going to give every player the attack bonus for free.

Abisashi said:

This feat looks like errata disguised as crunch - and poorly done, as it hurts characters who rely on both an implement and a weapon. I'm just going to give every player the attack bonus for free.

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Agreed. Frustrating for LFR, where it basically just means you have one less feat... or two, for certain character types (like Swordmage).

Obryn said:

It's a little on the boring side, and not letting it apply to basic attacks seems kind of random.

Click to expand...

Basic attack is an at-will power.

A quick glance at the expected curve, assuming a +1 item at level 3, a +2 at level 8, etc., means if you added +1 at 5, 15, and 25, you'd smooth the curve very nicely, so that seems like why they've put it at the levels they did, and just figured (correctly, I'd argue) that you're not behind enough in heroic or gaining enough if you take it later or earlier than level 5. In my home games, it will probably wind up free at those levels.

If every character takes this as a feat, it basically becomes a core character ability and every PC loses a feat. If that is the case, then this implementation is a mistake. There should be no feats that every PC takes. In fact, if there is a feat that more than 50% of the PCs are taking, I think there is a problem that needs to be addressed. I certainly see these feats (really the same 1 feat masked as 2 feats) as exceeding the 50% mark very quickly. I'll retrain my characters to gain them as soon as I can.

I'd love to hear designers comment on why the feat was made, what they think of everyone assuming it is a must have feat, and what builds might find this feat to be a suboptimal choice.

As worded, if you have a two-group weapon (e.g. khopesh, most [all?] polearms), you can take the feat twice--once for each group--and it will stack with itself. This would be remedied immediately by making the bonus a feat bonus, which would also cut down on the power of the feat. I cannot rightly see why this wasn't done.

Possibly because of the Tiefling feat that gives them a feat bonus to attack with fire...

This is a huge boost to Human as a racial choice. I'm a bit surprised to see that Bonus Feat racial becoming a big deal this early, but now the only one stat boost is quickly remedied by the +1 to hit feat anyway.

Overall, I'm disappointed, and about to be REALLY disappointed if it is a feat bonus.

If it only worked with encounter and daily powers, I think it would be right on. But as is, lame. Not interesting, but overly useful.

Can someone with a math bent and an obsessive compulsive personality please analyse the averages of all defences in the MM and all average attack bonuses with weapons and implements and then tell me if there is a problem with the math or not?

If there is, then this feat is errata disguised as crunch and I'll happily just add bonuses to hit at appropriate levels as freebies.

If there isn't, then I'd like everyone to stop complaining.

Wishful thinking?