D&D 5E Should magic items stay out of the next PHB?

SilverfireSage · Oct 22, 2014

Neonchameleon said:
I feel that spells should stay out of the PHB. I never liked the way AD&D edition did it because spells became too common knowledge. I have always felt that spells should be handled by the DM because he/she can allow or no allow certain spells if that is how hie/her campaign is going to go. Further if the basic unit of monster supernatural ability is the spell (as it is in 3.0, 3.5, and 5e), putting all the spells into the PHB enforces the idea that monsters are very seldom mysterious.

Magic items should be alongside spells, wherever and whatever they are. In 1e Spells were (other than a very few) treasure and so should have been treated like magic items. In 4e magic items were abilites and so treated consistently like spells. In Pathfinder there is no DMG. In 3.X you could make magic items freely but they were in the DMG. In 1e and 2e you had to discover most of your spells but they were in the PHB. You want common magic items and common spells in the PHB and rare in the DMG? That works. You want all spells to be accessible by PCs and PCs to make items? Put them all in the PHB.

This seems like another thread entirely. Probably a good idea to just start a new one rather than resurrect this old one.

Neonchameleon · Oct 22, 2014

... How the hell did I manage this much thread necromancy?

Nebulous · Oct 22, 2014

Neonchameleon said:
... How the hell did I manage this much thread necromancy?

I'm sure it was with a magic item you found in the DMG and not the PHB

Lanefan · Oct 22, 2014

Neonchameleon said:
I feel that spells should stay out of the PHB. I never liked the way AD&D edition did it because spells became too common knowledge. I have always felt that spells should be handled by the DM because he/she can allow or no allow certain spells if that is how hie/her campaign is going to go. Further if the basic unit of monster supernatural ability is the spell (as it is in 3.0, 3.5, and 5e), putting all the spells into the PHB enforces the idea that monsters are very seldom mysterious.

Magic items should be alongside spells, wherever and whatever they are. In 1e Spells were (other than a very few) treasure and so should have been treated like magic items.

You are of course referring to arcane spells only here, as most Clerics get most divine spells automatically and don't have to go searching for them.

But for arcane spells, this is one of those things that while being a truly excellent idea on paper would be a bitch to put into practice, as every time a PC found a new spell the DM would have to print off or write out the write-up for just that spell for the player to use; a pain in the butt in mid-session and a nuisance the rest of the time.

I'm going to give this some thought, however...if I can come up with a functional and not-too-much-effort way of putting this into practice I just might do it.

Lanefan

Sunseeker · Oct 22, 2014

I never understood why people think the stuff in the DMG is a big secret. Do you boot players from your table who read the DMG?

The DM always has control over what is in their game, regardless of which book it's in. If you don't think you are capable of controlling what is in your game, that's on you as the DM, and noone else.

aramis erak · Oct 22, 2014

shidaku said:
I never understood why people think the stuff in the DMG is a big secret. Do you boot players from your table who read the DMG?

that was the advice in the AD&D 1E DMG...

shidaku said:
The DM always has control over what is in their game, regardless of which book it's in. If you don't think you are capable of controlling what is in your game, that's on you as the DM, and noone else.

That depends on venue. A not insignificant number of us are running as part of organized play. We don't have control over

What books are allowed
What classes are allowed
What backgrounds are allowed
Which stat generation methods are allowed.
rolled or fixed stat generation

Those of us running organized play have to run with the PHB and DMG rules only, but have to allow all legal classes and races therein, and the backgrounds in that and the season book.
We have to use all the standard rules.

Yes, we agreed to that when we agreed to run Organized play... but it's not true that the DM is always the final say, because Organized play is different from at-home play.

was · Oct 23, 2014

I think that it's fine to put the low-level stuff into the PHB. The higher level stuff should stay in the DMG.

Plaguescarred · Oct 23, 2014

Yes, next large batch of magic items should be a in Tome of Magic type book if you ask me.

Hussar · Oct 23, 2014

shidaku said:
I never understood why people think the stuff in the DMG is a big secret. Do you boot players from your table who read the DMG?

The DM always has control over what is in their game, regardless of which book it's in. If you don't think you are capable of controlling what is in your game, that's on you as the DM, and noone else.

I'm with you on this one. Sure, there's the bit in the old 1e DMG, but, jeez, that's thirty years ago. Do that many people play with players who never DM?

Scorpio616 · Oct 23, 2014

Hussar said:
I'm with you on this one. Sure, there's the bit in the old 1e DMG, but, jeez, that's thirty years ago. Do that many people play with players who never DM?

Oh yes. Some players barely have enough time to make it to game to play. Other players don't have the spirit to run. And some just don't enjoy running.

D&D 5E Should magic items stay out of the next PHB?

SilverfireSage

Explorer

Neonchameleon

Legend

Nebulous

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Sunseeker

Guest

aramis erak

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was

Adventurer

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012

Hussar

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Scorpio616

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