D&D 5E Should magic items stay out of the next PHB?

[DMKastmaria]

Ah, yet another "Old School"/"New School" divide. Good Luck, WotC.

Is Magic Item placement the Purview of the DM or Player? That's really what it comes down to, no?

In my games, its the former. I'll make sure your Fighter gets that Kick-A#@ Magic Sword he's drooling for. And even work with you on some specifics, if you wish. But you're not going to take a rulebook and go on a shopping spree.

Besides, I use very few "standard" items, in any given campaign. Most I create myself, and they tie into the history and mythology of the milieu. Don't New School DM's still do this?

 

[Haldrik]

Put treasures in a separate book.

Dont forget, there can be thousands and thousands of different magic items. Do you really want all of these filling up the DMG? I dont.

 

[steeldragons]

I want a nice smattering of various, specific (if not "unique") magic items in the DMG.

I ALSO want a good page or two at the beginning (or the end, I'm not picky ) of guidelines for DMs to make their own. If this entails a few "random tables" for those who like to let the dice determine such things, I have no qualms with that, either. But guidelines and examples of how to construct magic items that would be useful for, say, "low level", "mid-level" and "high level" characters. Coming up with anything from a "Wand that changes your skin color" to the "ancient lost artifact of uber-power."

Then, of course, I also want a nice list (doesn't have to be as long/many as the 1e DMG, necessarily, but a good few pages) of "Artifacts & Relics" with some backstory/history of the item involved, their powers, the ramifications of having them...curses or geas they instill, etc.

But in the PHB? If it's not one of the 4 most common potions they're going to find...No. I'm sorta on the fence on Alchemical items that players might find/buy/produce themselves...I'm leaning toward these things making sense in the PHB...but just not 100% sure.

That covers things. I think.
--SD

 

[Stalker0]

I don't really get why, in a game where magic is mundane and predictable, there's this expectation that all magic items should be special.

Predictable yes, but not so mundane. While a wizard might be a common theme in most adventuring parties (who are by their nature uncommon), they aren't likely to be a dime a dozen in most worlds.

Unless of course, they are in your world, in which the point might stand.


In 5e, WOTC has said they are going back to low magic items as a default. A DM can always change that of course, but if the default is to make MIs rare and special, then I say keep them in the DMG.

 

[underfoot007ct]

Magic items are different because they can be bought or are found. You don't have the option of picking magic items like you do races, classes and feats.

Not so, that is a choice. A poor choice IMO. In most games I have ever played we can buy potions & scrolls as needed. Allowing players to ONLY find magic rather than possible purchase them should be a DM choice, not forced by only having these magical items in the DMG.

As a player I now need to carry a DMG, if I get certain magic items which I may need to look up what it may do in certain situations.

Why can't players pick magic like a class or a feat? They may work for a wizard who plans to create each player a magic item of their choice. What if my char take crafting feats, now I need a DMG to see what I can craft???

 

[am181d]

Let's talk PROs and CONs:

PRO List

• Easier for players to reference during play*
• Easier for character creation if players are starting at higher levels*
• Easier for characters to shop if it's that kind of a game*
• Many players own a copy of the DMG and/or will be familiar with its contents anyway

(*Easier because there are probably more copies of the PHB circulating and it keeps all the rules the players need in one place.)

CON List

• Takes away "the mystery"
• Increases the temptation for players to look up magic items during the game ("Ah! That's a Sphere of Annihilation. That's on pg. 146.")
• Symmetry

May just be me, but the PROs look like more more practical, sturdy reasons than the CONs in this case. As much as I like designing for the 13 year olds who are playing the game for the first time, this feels like a case where practicality wins out.

But I will happily accept counterarguments or corrections!

 

[Mallus]

As a current DM of Ye Olde School D&D --ie, AD&D-- and someone who started gaming during the AD&D era --ie, with AD&D and LLB Traveller-- I find it... frankly hilarious certain people are advancing the idea that by putting magic items in the DMG it will prevent players from reading about them and making shopping/wish lists, etc (and what about people who DM'd as well as played -- DM's weren't all part of a secret cult-caste back then...).

We *all* read the DMG as players back then. Because it had the magic items in it.

I can see no convincing reason, what the advances in communication technologies and the absolute lack-of-advance in human nature, why this would be different now.

I'm sure some people will respond with "Oh the players in my group never peeked at the items in the DMG!".

You were the minority.

Trust me.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

As a current DM of Ye Olde School D&D --ie, AD&D-- and someone who started gaming during the AD&D era --ie, with AD&D and LLB Traveller-- I find it... frankly hilarious certain people are advancing the idea that by putting magic items in the DMG it will prevent players from reading about them and making shopping/wish lists, etc (and what about people who DM'd as well as played -- DM's weren't all part of a secret cult-caste back then...).

We *all* read the DMG as players back then. Because it had the magic items in it.

I can see no convincing reason, what the advances in communication technologies and the absolute lack-of-advance in human nature, why this would be different now.

I'm sure some people will respond with "Oh the players in my group never peeked at the items in the DMG!".

You were the minority.

Trust me.

It's not about "peeking" at the DMG for items, it's about letting players know that magic items are in control of the DM. When you put magic items into the PHB players think that the items are just another part of their character.

Prestige Classes were the same way.

 

[Surmos]

I say a screw it. Put the magic items in both books. BLOW EVERYONE'S MIND!

but really this makes little difference to me and I dont see it making that big of a difference in the grand scheme of the game. In most games the DM provides the items, don't they?
And eventually players will know what the "better" items are for their class.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I feel that magic items should stay out of the PHB. I never liked the way 4th edition did it because magic items became too common knowledge. I have always felt that magic items should be handled by the DM because he/she can allow or no allow certain magic items if that is how hie/her campaign is going to go.

I feel that spells should stay out of the PHB. I never liked the way AD&D edition did it because spells became too common knowledge. I have always felt that spells should be handled by the DM because he/she can allow or no allow certain spells if that is how hie/her campaign is going to go. Further if the basic unit of monster supernatural ability is the spell (as it is in 3.0, 3.5, and 5e), putting all the spells into the PHB enforces the idea that monsters are very seldom mysterious.

Magic items should be alongside spells, wherever and whatever they are. In 1e Spells were (other than a very few) treasure and so should have been treated like magic items. In 4e magic items were abilites and so treated consistently like spells. In Pathfinder there is no DMG. In 3.X you could make magic items freely but they were in the DMG. In 1e and 2e you had to discover most of your spells but they were in the PHB. You want common magic items and common spells in the PHB and rare in the DMG? That works. You want all spells to be accessible by PCs and PCs to make items? Put them all in the PHB.