Day of the Doctor

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Except it was irrelevant to the episode.

No, it isn't irrelevant - it is there to set up the Doctor's emotional context. As a context, it has to make sense.

In addition, for the audience, it was called a "Time War", but the only elements we see look pretty much like conventional war. There's nothing Time-like about it. It's just a war, like other wars. They set an expectation that this war was special, and then failed to live up to that expectation, which isn't good storytelling.

All of which, as noted, could be handled with a couple of sentences, which is the sad part. This could just be an editing failure - the bit we need may be on the cutting room floor.
 

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MarkB

Legend
They should have spent a couple of sentences describing that, then.

They kind-of did. When the general heads to the Omega Vault, it's mentioned that this is where the Time Lords keep all their most terrible, forbidden weapons - except that they aren't forbidden anymore, and they've already used them all, with the exception of the Moment.
 

No, it isn't irrelevant - it is there to set up the Doctor's emotional context. As a context, it has to make sense.

In addition, for the audience, it was called a "Time War", but the only elements we see look pretty much like conventional war. There's nothing Time-like about it. It's just a war, like other wars. They set an expectation that this war was special, and then failed to live up to that expectation, which isn't good storytelling.

All of which, as noted, could be handled with a couple of sentences, which is the sad part. This could just be an editing failure - the bit we need may be on the cutting room floor.
It's emotionally relevant but, until the end, not plot relevant. You could have cut every single scene of the Siege of Galifrey / Fall of Arcadia and everything would have continued unaffected.

Describing a Time War is hard. Try it. Explain what is, how it is different in those couple sentences you say could have handled it.

They didn't even stop to describe what The Moment actually did either, because the actual nitty gritty effect was irrelevant.

Plus the "Fall of Arcadia" is not new. It's been referenced a few times. It had been established that there were physical battles in the Time War. And from past comments (such as the 9th/10th Doctor's in Dalek) it implied the Daleks had a fleet that was in one central location to be burned.

Really, I didn't expect to see a full representation of Time War here any more than I expected to see a full representation of WW2 in Saving Private Ryan. Just a taste.
And I don't think it would have been as visually or emotionally satisfying to see the Daleks erasing people from existence rather than exterminating them.
 

They kind-of did. When the general heads to the Omega Vault, it's mentioned that this is where the Time Lords keep all their most terrible, forbidden weapons - except that they aren't forbidden anymore, and they've already used them all, with the exception of the Moment.

Yup.

They probably did everything they could have thought of getting the Daleks removed from existence. They failed. The Daleks probably also did everything they could have done to remove the Timelords and Galifrey from existence, but they failed. All these super weapons do is - kinda like it is in real life with nukes - is to avert a conventional war or bring a conventional war to a halt. But since these weapons failed, conventional warfare it was. (Albeit with space ships trying to penetrate sky shields and tin cans with eye stalks and energy weapons fighting soldiers with energy weapons).

The only thing they hadn't tried yet was the "Rassailon Group" that tried to simply destroy everything but Galifrey, and the Moment (the latter possibly because it refused to "help", or no one dared to ask). And finally, 400 years after the deciding moment in war, the Doctor finally found the third solution.
 

We will probably get a bit more of the Time War when Gallifrey is returned to the series. Which is unfortunate - the series worked better when Gallifrey was destroyed.
 



Remus Lupin

Adventurer
Well, the advantages to bringing back Gallifrey would include being able to bring back in some classic time lord characters, Romana primary among them. But the Time Lords did seem to gum up the works a lot when they were around. But it does allow the writers to break away from the doctor as "lonely god."
 

Nellisir

Hero
I thought this x1000%. The Time War turns out to be some people shooting at daleks with laser guns. Agreed, completely. This is there RRD's glorious imagination was failed by Moffat's pragmatism.

I think this in just about every episode of Doctor Who (and almost every episode of Marvels Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. so far as well.). They could have shown planets disappearing, the stars going out; galaxies sputtering down like candles...IN ADDITION to the "on the ground" scenes, but they didn't. Frankly, every battle scene I see in the series looks like it was cribbed from WWII. Sonic screwdrivers seem to be good at dismantling Daleks; can they not pass out a few of those? Or is uber-hi-tech really laser lights and crude helmets?

And the stone dust in the Undergallery...sheesh. They opened the door and I thought "geez, do they only dust once a millenia?" How does that not set off alarms?
 

Well, the advantages to bringing back Gallifrey would include being able to bring back in some classic time lord characters, Romana primary among them. But the Time Lords did seem to gum up the works a lot when they were around. But it does allow the writers to break away from the doctor as "lonely god."

I think bringing Gallifrey is a needed shake up. I've enjoyed the lone timelord to this point but I dont know that it could be sustained much longer.
 

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