You don't even need to go back that far- US Marines got the nickname "leathernecks" from wearing leather gorgets in combat, and that was as recently as the Phillipene-American war, which ended in 1902.
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- Thread starter Waller
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You don't even need to go back that far- US Marines got the nickname "leathernecks" from wearing leather gorgets in combat, and that was as recently as the Phillipene-American war, which ended in 1902.
technoextreme
Explorer
For the most part the technology didn't really exist to make leather at the time most fantasy RPGs take place.
Leather existed hundreds of years before most medieval fantasy RPGs. The Eqyptians, Greeks and Romans used it way into the BCs, as did the ancient Babylonians. Not that that matters; they're fantasy RPGs. I'm pretty sure we'd struggle to build Moria!
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I know for sure that cuir bouilli armor was mentioned in European texts as early as 1375. I also know that stiffened leather shields were used by many "Bronze Age" level tech tribes around the world...and oddly, were dusted off by Spanish conquistadores in their campaign to take the Americas.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I disagree. Leather goes back 5500 years, to 3500 B.C., during Armenia's Copper Age! (And if you disagree and think it was not available enough in medieval times, I'd like to see some support for that claim in the form of some links). And I think given the game has leather armor to begin with, and we all accept the game will have leather armor and other worked leather, I think it's a silly point.
So I ask again, what is unrealistic about the armor portrayed in that picture?
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You're correct that leather is very old - stone age cultures (like, say, the Native Americans before Columbus) could tan leather. I expect that the issue isn't leather, per se. Soft leather like in that shoe isn't particularly useful as armor.
However, the "technology" needed to harden leather to the point it gives protection is... boiling water. I'm pretty sure they had boiling water in the age in which most fantasy RPGs take place
Not to assault the deceased equine, but I don't know what "time most fantasy RPGs" you play in are set...or that you can possibly make such an assertion without having played in "most fantasy RPGs". I, myself, have never played in ny game setting that is supposed to be a mirror of the real world.
My fantasy world has nothing analogous to a "real world time/history" or the technological record thereof. There are metal weapons and armor (in most cultures), there are stone-tipped spears and huts in others, great citadels of stone or enchanted shaped wood, even some of magical crystal, some societies have aqueducts and huge bathhouses built over hot springs, some have outhouses and wells, other (fortunates) have dwarven-engineered flushing toilets and piped hot water (as only dwarves could conceive of such a thing). Some have golems [or other constucts] of bone/stone/wood/flesh or metal, while others continue to rely on [sapient beings and sanctioned] slave labor...and then, naturally, magic that can make pretty much anything anyone could want. Some live on clouds, taming griffons, and others beneath the darkest reaches of the known seas traveling in fantastic magical "whales" [would be the closest "real" thing]...and then there's the UNknown seas to contend with!
There is no "real world time" to say no you can't/this doesn't exist...though I do disallow any sort of modern/historic/or sci-fi "gun/firearm". It simply takes me completely OUT of the "fantasy" mindset immediately.
So, yeah, the "technology" exists to make leather and hardened/armor leather. No prob.
RangerWickett
Legend
Since you were making such a fuss about it, I had to Google what a pickup is. Oh yeah, the guitar probably shouldn't have that . . .
unless it's a MAGICAL pickup! ELDRITCH ELECTRIC GUITAR SOLO! *shreds like the devil, blood and lightning fall from the sky* METAL!
I feel like the new edition definitely needs a bard archetype styled on Metalocalypse. Release it on April Fool's Day if you have to, but I wants it, precious.
Salamandyr
Adventurer
A handful of points... (speaking specifically of the second piece of art posted).
a) that is clearly not a leather gorget. It's a steel one. And it's huge. The wearer would not be able to raise his arms above his head to fight, and if the neck holee was so wide as to allow him to do so, raising his arms would blind him. One way or the other that things more likely to kill him than save his life.
b) as unrealistic depictions of armor goes, this one is not too bad. It's far too bulky, but it's less ridiculous looking than, for instance, the ridiculously oversized armor of World of Warcraft, Warhammer, or a few of the sillier illustrations in 4e. My original post was more a tweak at the idea that just because armor is all encompassing, it's somehow more realistic than loincloth clad barbarians or "chain mail bikinis". It's actually less. One could actually fight in a loin cloth or bikini; I defy anyone to do anything more than crash ridiculously into each other on horseback while wearing that hundred pound get up.
I'd rather go into combat with a boob window than all that metal.
c) while it doesn't apply to this particular illustration, armor is not the only thing most D&D art gets egregiously wrong. Everybody complains about the armor, but the depiction of weapons is generally even worse.
d) Where the heck are all these "chain mail bikinis" everybody keeps talking about? Thirty years ago they occasionally cropped up. But they were pretty thin on the ground even back in the 90's. Yet people act like this was a trend that was active up until last week.
As for the guitar pic. It looks fine to me. The guitar dates back to at least the 12th Century, most D&D technology is depicted as approximately 16th Century, and the Forgotten Realms has always had guitars (called 'yartings') in them. It looks like a finely crafted guitar. Awesome.
a) that is clearly not a leather gorget. It's a steel one. And it's huge. The wearer would not be able to raise his arms above his head to fight, and if the neck holee was so wide as to allow him to do so, raising his arms would blind him. One way or the other that things more likely to kill him than save his life.
b) as unrealistic depictions of armor goes, this one is not too bad. It's far too bulky, but it's less ridiculous looking than, for instance, the ridiculously oversized armor of World of Warcraft, Warhammer, or a few of the sillier illustrations in 4e. My original post was more a tweak at the idea that just because armor is all encompassing, it's somehow more realistic than loincloth clad barbarians or "chain mail bikinis". It's actually less. One could actually fight in a loin cloth or bikini; I defy anyone to do anything more than crash ridiculously into each other on horseback while wearing that hundred pound get up.
I'd rather go into combat with a boob window than all that metal.
c) while it doesn't apply to this particular illustration, armor is not the only thing most D&D art gets egregiously wrong. Everybody complains about the armor, but the depiction of weapons is generally even worse.
d) Where the heck are all these "chain mail bikinis" everybody keeps talking about? Thirty years ago they occasionally cropped up. But they were pretty thin on the ground even back in the 90's. Yet people act like this was a trend that was active up until last week.
As for the guitar pic. It looks fine to me. The guitar dates back to at least the 12th Century, most D&D technology is depicted as approximately 16th Century, and the Forgotten Realms has always had guitars (called 'yartings') in them. It looks like a finely crafted guitar. Awesome.
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Klaus
First Post
Escapist Magazine has pictures of the Beholder, Xorn, Carrion Crawler, Cloaker and Mimic:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/gallery/view/35/11308/2355.2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/gallery/view/35/11308/2355.2
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