It just seems SO lacking compared to the Draconic Sorcerer. I don't understand the draw. There is a Wild Magic Sorcerer in one of the groups I play with and we are almost level 7 and he has NEVER had to roll from his Wild surge chart or whatever it's called. What's the point? Am I missing something?
D&D 5E Is the Wild magic Sorcerer as terrible as it seems?
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
You're not wrong. One of the issues is that the Wild Magic Surge is mostly based on DM Fiat. The sorcerer rolls every time they cast, but that isn't likely to happen on the regular. Some DM's (myself included) read the Tides of Chaos ability as linked to the Wild Magic Surge. As in, after Tides of Chaos, the next spell or so cast will automatically cause a Wild Magic Surge and thus reset the Tides of Chaos ability.
But there are other problems with the class as well. If you'd like, I can provide some ways I've adjusted the Wild Magic Sorcerer abilities.
But there are other problems with the class as well. If you'd like, I can provide some ways I've adjusted the Wild Magic Sorcerer abilities.
Immoralkickass
Adventurer
I am currently playing a 3rd level Wild Magic sorcerer, and its a lot of fun. I don't know how your friend manage to reach 7th level without ever rolling on the wild magic surge, because you can force it by using Tides of Chaos first, then cast any non-cantrip spell. If your DM refuses to let you roll in this situation, you shouldn't be playing a wild mage.
My favourite is using Tides of Chaos to grant advantage on Chromatic Orb, and twin it. Its a lot of power, but the limiting factor is your sorcery points, which I feel is too little, especially at low levels.
I had my doubts about Wild Magic at first, but its all gone now. Its fun, and thats what I want when playing D&D. Everyone always thinks about the Fireball TPK thing, but its only 2% chance. I seldom roll on the wild magic table at levels 1-2, because i hardly use Tides of Chaos. Most fights are easily won with Sleep anyway. Rolling dice is fun, and rolling a d100 is exciting. Unless for some reason you hate randomness (what the hell is wrong with you??), then Wild Magic is not for you.
Special note on Tides of Chaos: Its the greatest thing about Wild Magic. Having advantage on attack, ability checks and saving throw is good, but what makes it golden is the ability to constantly spam it. Using a spell scroll, death saves, etc all benefit greatly from Tides. Draconic resilience is not all that good, unless for some reason you are getting hit a lot.
Tl;dr - Draconic is not clearly better than Wild Magic until 14th level, which they get free flying movement.
My favourite is using Tides of Chaos to grant advantage on Chromatic Orb, and twin it. Its a lot of power, but the limiting factor is your sorcery points, which I feel is too little, especially at low levels.
I had my doubts about Wild Magic at first, but its all gone now. Its fun, and thats what I want when playing D&D. Everyone always thinks about the Fireball TPK thing, but its only 2% chance. I seldom roll on the wild magic table at levels 1-2, because i hardly use Tides of Chaos. Most fights are easily won with Sleep anyway. Rolling dice is fun, and rolling a d100 is exciting. Unless for some reason you hate randomness (what the hell is wrong with you??), then Wild Magic is not for you.
Special note on Tides of Chaos: Its the greatest thing about Wild Magic. Having advantage on attack, ability checks and saving throw is good, but what makes it golden is the ability to constantly spam it. Using a spell scroll, death saves, etc all benefit greatly from Tides. Draconic resilience is not all that good, unless for some reason you are getting hit a lot.
Tl;dr - Draconic is not clearly better than Wild Magic until 14th level, which they get free flying movement.
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FormerlyHemlock
Hero
Well, you're missing the fact that Bend Luck is one of the very few ways in the game to penalize someone else's saving throws. The fact that you can use it after the enemy rolls just makes it even better/more efficient. Having a 6th+ level Wild Sorcerer in the party is sort of like adding 2.5 to everyone's spell DCs, which is sort of like a +5 boost to every spellcaster's primary ability score. In practice it won't be quite that much because you usually won't use it 100% effectively or 100% of the time, but it's still the best part of the wild sorc class.
Other than that, Wild Mages make for good multiclass tank characters for a ranged-heavy party, because wild surges like a Confusion/Fireball that happens when you're in the thick of it with three orogs are arguably beneficial, and no worse than neutral, since it's only hitting bad guys. That makes Tides of Chaos pretty good, at least if the DM is willing to let it trigger often (e.g. off of your Shield spells).
But Bend Luck is the main thing. I wouldn't give up Bend Luck just to get +1 HP per level and +Cha to Fire Bolt and Fireball.
It's less tough, but the ability to give yourself advantage when you want is very powerful. Combine with Chromatic orb at low levels. But a lot does depend on the DM. The two I've played with so far, the DM just had them automatically roll on the wild surge table whenever possible.
KahlessNestor
Adventurer
I have a wild in my game. I want him to surge. But I forgot the rules on surging since he's new and hasn't done it much (L3 now). So when he asked "Can I surge?" I was like "Okay." It proved clutch. He asked to surge twice in a combat where they were in over their heads and got two unicorns.
Looking at the rules, ot only surges on a 1, or if you do Tides. I kind of want more than that, but don't want him to ask. It should be random. So I have the idea of "escalating chaos". Every time he rolls to surge, but doesn't surge (get a 1), the surge range increases by +1. This persists through rests and doesn't reset until he surges. So the second roll surges on 1-2, then 1-3, etc. Tides works normally by triggering an auto-surge on the next non-cantrip.
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Looking at the rules, ot only surges on a 1, or if you do Tides. I kind of want more than that, but don't want him to ask. It should be random. So I have the idea of "escalating chaos". Every time he rolls to surge, but doesn't surge (get a 1), the surge range increases by +1. This persists through rests and doesn't reset until he surges. So the second roll surges on 1-2, then 1-3, etc. Tides works normally by triggering an auto-surge on the next non-cantrip.
Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app
CapnZapp
Legend
The Wild Mage is actually broken, but in a subtle way that lots of players doesn't even realize.
The brokenness is in how WotC has opened up the use of the subclass separately from the use of its main power, Tides of Chaos.
The text simply fails to explain to Dungeon Masters that to achieve any resemblance to parity with the Draconic subclass, a Wild Mage needs to gain his rerolls through Tides of Chaos over and over again. There needs to be Wild Surges all the time. This is not apparent, and so many DMs decide (without a trace of malice) that there should be "the occasional" or "some" or "whenever appropriate" Wild Surges rather than the constant surges the Wild Mage needs to compete.
The subclass should have been presented as a proper package, that the DM can either approve or deny. But that's not the case:
The issue (and this thread) comes about when a DM allows the class, but does not allow Tides of Chaos after each and every non-cantrip spell the Wild Mage casts.
The broken part is making a subclass feature DM approved rather than the subclass itself. This creates a trap where a player can be saddled with an underperforming choice through a well-meaning DM's decisions.
Then you have other underdeveloped features, such as very few attack spells that can take (literal) advantage of Tides of Chaos, and essentially no spells actually themed "wild" (that a Wild Mage would have some control over differently from other spellcasters), but that's another matter.
The brokenness is in how WotC has opened up the use of the subclass separately from the use of its main power, Tides of Chaos.
The text simply fails to explain to Dungeon Masters that to achieve any resemblance to parity with the Draconic subclass, a Wild Mage needs to gain his rerolls through Tides of Chaos over and over again. There needs to be Wild Surges all the time. This is not apparent, and so many DMs decide (without a trace of malice) that there should be "the occasional" or "some" or "whenever appropriate" Wild Surges rather than the constant surges the Wild Mage needs to compete.
The subclass should have been presented as a proper package, that the DM can either approve or deny. But that's not the case:
The issue (and this thread) comes about when a DM allows the class, but does not allow Tides of Chaos after each and every non-cantrip spell the Wild Mage casts.
The broken part is making a subclass feature DM approved rather than the subclass itself. This creates a trap where a player can be saddled with an underperforming choice through a well-meaning DM's decisions.
Then you have other underdeveloped features, such as very few attack spells that can take (literal) advantage of Tides of Chaos, and essentially no spells actually themed "wild" (that a Wild Mage would have some control over differently from other spellcasters), but that's another matter.
pukunui
Legend
I love the wild mage. I've played one, and I've DMed for some. When I DM, I rework the chance of a surge so that the number you have to get on the d20 isn't just 1 all the time but is a number equal to or less than the level of the spell slot used to cast the spell (eg. if you cast a 7th level spell - or a lower level spell using a 7th level spell slot - then when you roll your d20, you get a surge on a roll of 1-7).
