D&D 5E I hate rapiers. Do you?

[BookBarbarian]

I've wanted to put an estoc on my weapon's table for a while, but I can't figure out exactly what stats to give it such that it has unique advantages. The problem would be even worse in 5e.

Yup.

I just tell my players they can cut with a rapier/shortsword/dagger and thrust with scimitar/longsword/greatsword/glaive and can pretty much call them whatever they want. It hasn't broken anything yet.

 

[lowkey13]

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[lowkey13]

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[The Crimson Binome]

Isn't this more a problem with Dex is King than the Rapier itself?

That's part of the problem. Even if Strength had more going for it, though, it would still be ridiculous to use a puny rapier against a heavily-armored dragon or a death knight. The sword which people associate with that name is a weapon suited for dueling or civilian use, rather than the battlefield.

 

[Celebrim]

Oh, but I don't really dislike the weapon simplification.

I do dislike the placement of a finesse melee weapon at d8.

And the corresponding rise of the rapier.

Sounds like the easiest house rule fix in history... unless you aren't the DM, in which case you'll just have to suffer.

 

[lowkey13]

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[doctorbadwolf]

It'd be OK if STR builds were at least as good as DEX builds in, say, the exploration pillar. Which they're not.

It was a very specialized weapon that was suited to a period when armor was on the way out and firearms on the way in. Vs the armor of earlier periods it would not have done well; compared to repeating firearms, it's virtually pointless(npi).

It's also, like the longbow, very iconic. There are a lot more would-be swashbucklers to be upset by a sub-optimal rapier than would-be Roman gladiators to be upset by a sub-optimal shortsword.

Could be some nice options to present. Maybe in the context of more detailed combat options, tweaked action economy, better tactical positioning rules, and new martial classes?

The only armor a rapier has trouble against is what DnD calls full plate. Leave your legs or arms exposed and a rapier will kill you pretty damn quick. Actual earlier armor, like leather and chain, is little aid against a precise stabbing weapon.

 

[Thurmas]

Oh, but I don't really dislike the weapon simplification.

I do dislike the placement of a finesse melee weapon at d8.

And the corresponding rise of the rapier.

Perhaps the problem isn't the finesse melee weapon at d8, because as a martial weapon, it scales appropriately compared to simple finesse weapons. Perhaps instead the problem is other weapons not scaling agressively enough. Make Longswords/Battleaxes/Warhammer/etc d10 (d12 versatile), polearms d12, and Heavy two handed weapons (Greatsword/Greataxe/Maul) 2d6. This would probably need some more tweaking along the way, but it would still allow the martial finesse weapon AND give a boost to strength users in their weapon choice.

 

[flametitan]

I wonder if the problems of D&D 5e aren't caused by any one stat being too good, but rather that it was designed under the assumption that you'd have stats lower than what is reasonable to obtain.

DEX wouldn't seem all that godlike if it was hard bound to a +3 (as I seem to remember discussion about this being the target point of balance). Your AC would be undeniably lower than an STR based character, so having equal damage in melee would seem fair. Medium armour would be more appealing, though half plate may have to be removed, as you can't get equal AC in light armour. Save DCs would be limited to a 17 (easier to succeed on for those with bad saves, though not necessarily enough to solve its problems).

 

[werecorpse]

Meh I don't find Dex too good compared to strength. I just don't like the image the word rapier conjures up. I hear people saying that the d&d rapier isn't the modern thin bladed fencing tool but that's the image I get.