Paladin / Warlock Faith conflict query

[jgsugden]

D&D is an RPG. A role playing game. We're telling a story, here. The Holy Man that makes a deal with a Supernatural force is pretty much a cliche... and can go in a large variety of ways.

A Paladin that wants to do more for his people, but his God doesn't offer him the powers he needs to do everything he thinks should be done... so he makes a deal to get the power to make the difference he needs to make. Does he do it with a Planetar, an Elder God, a Fallen Deva, a Fey Power, or some other power? Or maybe he isn't focused on doing more for his people, but just feels that he is not being rewarded enough for his sacrifices... he needs a guaranteed return on his efforts...

So many story possibilities.

 

[batfishmobile]

OK, how do you resolve the potential faith conflict for multiclassing warlock & paladin?

It could be interesting to role-play off of that conflict. Maybe the paladin has to hide the fact that he is also an agent of a demonic lord.

Possibly the patron he follows as a warlock, is a fay which also serves the same power as the paladin.

And depending on the world, deities might just be a fact of life, so no faith is required. And maybe there is no conflict in serving multiple deities or powers.

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[Charlaquin]

The resolution to this conflict lies in your answer to the question of why warlock magic is considered arcane rather than divine. For one reason or another, Warlocks’ powers, which they receive from an extraplanar entity, are treated differently by the setting than the powers that clerics receive from extraplanar entities. Is it because Clerics receive their powers as a reward for devotion while Warlocks receive theirs as payment for services? Is it because Clerics receive their powers from Gods and Warlocks receive theirs from lesser entities? Is it because of something else? How you think about the nature of warlock magic vs. Divine magic will affect how you think about the conflict of a divine caster also receiving warlock powers from another, potentially opposing entity.

In my games, it’s because Warlocks don’t serve their “patrons.” They use knowledge of arcane laws and mystical binding techniques to force these entities into patronage. It’s arcane magic because it relies on an understanding of the cosmic rules that govern interactions between planar entities, rather than in exchange of service. A Cleric is in an agreement with his God, he serves faithfully and follows his god’s commandments and in exchange he can perform miracles. A Warlock finds the true name of a powerful Fiend, or devises a particularly effective sigil of binding, or learns that a certain Archfey must grant a boon to a mortal who performs a particular ritual, and leverages this knowledge to make her “patron” grant her power. There is no internal conflict of faith for a Paladin who serves Pelor to bind Asmodeus into involuntary Patronage.

 

[ClockworkNinja]

OK, how do you resolve the potential faith conflict for multiclassing warlock & paladin?

Partly this depends on the character's paladin oath and patron choice, but there would be explanations for any of them. For example a devotion/fiend could be a holy warrior who captured a demon and bound it into service rather than destroying it outright; or a former cultist who realized too late that the cool party they were attending was actually a human sacrifice and joined the paladin order as an attempt at atonement.

Remember that the non-fiend patrons all have their own objectives and logic, which may or may not be comprehensible to the character. A minor favor done for a strange old woman in the forest might get you some fey-pact levels, whereas reading the wrong inscription aloud in a forgotten temple might get the attention of the great old one and a fun mystery in figuring out what you've inadvertently promised it in exchange.

I'm personally thinking of playing a member of a warrior family who tried to run away from her responsibilities, until her father made a deal with the hexblade on her behalf to provide "guidance" back to the path of slaying undead.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Easy. Any paladin who disrespects their god directly, by trying to make a personal deal with an outside power, is reduced to a scorch mark on the ground where the bolt of retribution struck.

If you want to play a paladin who multiclasses into warlock, then you first need to re-define what it means to be a paladin in the first place.

 

[Ancalagon]

The resolution to this conflict lies in your answer to the question of why warlock magic is considered arcane rather than divine. For one reason or another, Warlocks’ powers, which they receive from an extraplanar entity, are treated differently by the setting than the powers that clerics receive from extraplanar entities. Is it because Clerics receive their powers as a reward for devotion while Warlocks receive theirs as payment for services? Is it because Clerics receive their powers from Gods and Warlocks receive theirs from lesser entities? Is it because of something else? How you think about the nature of warlock magic vs. Divine magic will affect how you think about the conflict of a divine caster also receiving warlock powers from another, potentially opposing entity.

In my games, it’s because Warlocks don’t serve their “patrons.” They use knowledge of arcane laws and mystical binding techniques to force these entities into patronage. It’s arcane magic because it relies on an understanding of the cosmic rules that govern interactions between planar entities, rather than in exchange of service. A Cleric is in an agreement with his God, he serves faithfully and follows his god’s commandments and in exchange he can perform miracles. A Warlock finds the true name of a powerful Fiend, or devises a particularly effective sigil of binding, or learns that a certain Archfey must grant a boon to a mortal who performs a particular ritual, and leverages this knowledge to make her “patron” grant her power.

I really disagree with this - while the Patron may not have the same influence as a God has, and there may be some obligations, you've put the PC firmly in the driver's seat with a relationship with a powerful entity. This doesn't sit well with me. Furthermore:

It’s arcane magic because it relies on an understanding of the cosmic rules that govern interactions between planar entities

No. That's *wizards* doing this. Wizard understand what they are doing (most of the time). A big indication of this is that they use Intelligence as their driving stat, warlocks do not. Sorcerers have powers that comes from within and an intuitive grasp of magic. Warlock have *neither* understanding nor inate powers. So you aren't smart enough to understand planar mechanics and eldritch grammars, you don't have dragon blood in your veins, you aren't particularly religious... but you really want magical powers. What do you do? You make a pact.

And what do you gain from your pact? *secrets*. Formulaes, tips, methods you never would have managed on your own, and don't fully understand. Mechanically this is illustrated in the warlock having a very shallow pool of spells (as in 2-3 slots), but one he can renew quite easily.

The Patron (at least, this is how I run it in my game) can't "withdraw" his/her gifts to the warlock. A warlock who betrays his or her patron can keep casting! Buuuut if they want more secrets (ie gain levels) well then... they must stay in their patron's good grace.

There is no internal conflict of faith for a Paladin who serves Pelor to bind Asmodeus into involuntary Patronage.

Oh that never backfires, nope, never, not at all!

(seriously, what kind of punk do you think Asmodeus is?)

 

[Delazar78]

Why all these comments about “gods”? A paladin gets his power from his Oath, not from a god.

Arioch, my Infernal lord, with your help I swear Vengeance on my enemies!

Titania, oh Fey queen, I give you my Devotion!

And so on...

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

OK, how do you resolve the potential faith conflict for multiclassing warlock & paladin?

What conflict? And what faith?
As others have pointed out, there is only an issue if the player chooses that their character has sworn their oath to, and then made a deal with two different but antagonistic beings. That's a pretty small subset of character concepts involving those two classes.

 

[Seramus]

Some gods are jealous and wrathful. Most are not. Sharing respect and worship is a common thing in many polytheistic and henotheistic religions. You could even make pacts with entities inside your own pantheon, like Furies, Ratatoskr, Inari, Saints, etc.

 

[Krachek]

Ask the player : why do you want your character to MC in paladin or warlock?
Usually there will be Two kinds of answer:
Because devil sight, eldritch blast, smite, etc...
Or a long answer involving faith, role play, campaign history or hook.
I would allow it for long answer.