Why I feel so abysmally let down by the "Ravnica" news...

[Cyber-Dave]

How would you interpret the statement "it's not what you expect" then?! Given that there where people expecting every established D&D IP, they only way it could be "not what you expect" is for it to not be an established D&D IP.

I knew some element would be well outside my range of expectations. Ravnica fits that, I grant you. When you tell people that the overall set up will have 2 items that will appeal to hardcore fans, however, this overall set-up reasonably disappoints a lot of your fandom. Your newest setting and a Plane from Magic? The Plane from Magic appears to be getting preferential treatment? I mean, whatever. I have faith that both products will end up being fun as hell. I've already bought Eberron. It is, however, reasonable that fans are disappointed. I'm not talking about a toxic fandom either. I've got less rage and spittle flying from my digital lips than some of the people taking issue with the fact that people are disappointed. I can't, however, help but feel disappointed, and I am far from the only one. This product announcement has met with the most lukewarm reception of any product they have released for 5e to date. The attitude on these boards and the various Reddit/Facebook communities I am a part of bear more resemblance to what I saw back in the 4e days than in the 5e days. It's... unpleasant. It's also unfortunate. I think a Ravnica/Eberron release could have been released without any disappointment if the build-up had been handled with a little less ambiguity and a little more finesse.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

That is a fair attitude @MNblockhead. I'm trying to work my way from disappointed towards that. I'll be honest, I think this thread is part of my cathartic process. As I said, I have been looking into Ravnica, and there is a lot to love about the setting. I know I will be buying the product and giving it an honest whirl. I am also very happy about the way Eberron has been released. I think it is a smart distribution model for settings. I hope they release more of them, in the future, using a similar model.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

It’s fine to be disappointed when entertainment doesn’t live up to what you had hoped and dreamed about. Just don’t let that disappointment become toxic. The dark path of fandom that is.

Agreed. I am trying not to walk that path, even in the face of some posters' rage that I am not greeting the announcement with fanfare and joy. Hell, I am trying to become excited about Ravnica too.

...Inn called Beaches offers 1,000 rooms, each a portal to a cottage on a private beach somewhere in the multiverse.

...consider that idea stolen.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It features magical flying boats powered by bound elementals, which is decidedly not steampunk. Steampunk is a genre built around the idea that you can have a high tech setting with inductrial revolution era technology -- steam power (of course), babbage engines, and clockwork all feature prominently whether a particular steampunk setting incorporates magic. Eberron borrows a few asthetic elements from steampunk in some of the artwork, but is much more influenced by magitech and pulp fiction.

Sharn, felt like cyberpunk, to me, too.

D&D was always a little bit of a genre slut: a lot of fantasy of different sub-genres, bit of Lovecraft, bit of sci-fi...

Eberron updated that syncretic D&D style: the fantasy bits feel like urban fantasy, the sci-fi like cyberpunk & steampunk, etc... 'magitech' works as well as anything, but you're certainly right that it's not steampunk - it at most borrows bits from steampunk, it's not even really a fantasy-steampunk genre mashup like Castle Falkenstien was.

Carvorite, from H G Wells 1st Men in the Moon, is a magical power source for flying vehicles from a novel that is undoubtedly steampunk.

Wells pioneered science fiction in the late 19th century, steampunk started in the late 1980s - it imitated Wells & Verne in some ways, used the 'bits' they'd established, that doesn't retroactively change vintage sci-fi into steampunk.

The John Carter stories are often classed as Steampunk, even though it's flying ships are powered by magic.

The 8th Ray is not magic! It's just sufficiently-advanced technology. ;P And ERB's Barsoom series was the founding 'Sword & Planet' sub-genre of science-fiction.

Steampunk does not mean sci-fi set in the past, it's a lot more specific than that, an is a romantic movement, as well, with social aspects of the imagined alternate worlds mattering a great deal, too, not just the technologies or trappings. There is a hopefulness, an openness to wonder, and a celebration of technology (to the level of art, if not magic/religion) in steampunk that is quite absent from cyberpunk and 70s new-wave sci-fi.

Steampunk features Victorian era dress, steam power, and clockwork technology. Something that doesn't have steam power is not steampunk. It's literally in the name.

It could have as easily been gaslightpunk or airshippunk or corsetpunk, I suppose. ;P

Haha, no. Spelljammer is neither Steam nor Punk.

Spelljammer's clearly derivative of Message from Space...
...well, more than from steampunk.

OK, not at all, but there was a sailing ship in space, in it, briefly.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think the reason I'm disappointed is that this comes across as a lazy choice.

Honestly, I know next to nothing about Magic the Gathering. I know even less about Ravnica. In fact, before I saw that it was a MTG location I could have been intrigued. A massive city run by 10 powerful guilds, the cover art on the book was interesting, I can step back and like this stuff.

But then I realize, this isn't an unexplored world that I can learn about beside others. It has a history through MTG and probably some books. Massively powerful NPCs are likely, and people from the right circle can probably list of entire plot points and motivations.

They didn't create a setting, they translated a setting. Which is fine I suppose, but much like The One Ring system it just doesn't feel new and exciting.

I'm trying to get over it, it is kind of unfair since I'd have been more interested and excited about this if only I didn't know it was a Magic setting, but it is so I'm just left feeling... meh.

 

[schnee]

You know, occasionally people can build things that appeal to other people more than you.

It ALL doesn't have to revolve around you.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Steampunk does not mean sci-fi set in the past, it's a lot more specific than that, an is a romantic movement, as well, with social aspects of the imagined alternate worlds mattering a great deal, too, not just the technologies or trappings. There is a hopefulness, an openness to wonder, and a celebration of technology (to the level of art, if not magic/religion) in steampunk that is quite absent from cyberpunk and 70s new-wave sci-fi.

Generally, I try (obviously failing as often as I succeed) and stay away from discussions about literary theory over the forums these days. It is too much like work for me. Once in a blue moon, however, someone makes a post which is intelligent but woefully inaccurate about some specific detail. With that in mind, you can take what I am about to say in that vein or ignore it, as you will: you woefully misunderstand the connotations and importance of the term "romantic movement," especially as it pertains to steampunk and cyberpunk. Romantic texts are not necessarily hopeful, full of openness, or wonder, nor do they necessarily celebrate technology. They can, in fact, do the exact opposite. There is a reason why the term "dark romanticism" had to be invented. Additionally, it is inaccurate to label steampunk as a romantic genre to the antithesis of cyberpunk. In fact, cyberpunk is famously described as being a new-wave of romanticism. In its early days, many critics used the term "neuromanticism" or "neuromantic" to describe the genre. That term was taken from Gibson's seminal text and the wide-ranging perception that cyberpunk was a form of "new romanticism." You should think of romanticism more in terms of its relation/attitude towards enlightenment era philosophy (generally negative, though a one word descriptor is reductive), its evaluation of emotion (generally positive), and its use of concepts such as the "sublime" (viewed as the highest aesthetic form).

 

[Raunalyn]

So, let's talk about Ravnica then. Those of you who are fans of the setting...sell it to us who don't know much about it. What makes it unique? What makes it interesting? Why would those of us who are grognards want to play campaigns set in this setting?

This is really what I think was missing from the announcement, and the source of much of my disappointment.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

This was the video that started getting me excited about Ravnica: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZ9hkRr9pw.