What is the single best science fiction or fantasy franchise?

[MGibster]

I think the only reason they are is the very dedicated efforts of the various licence-holders, and the fact that fans of the 1990s cartoon are now of the age where they're in charge of the media and can indulge their nostalgia.

I hadn't considered this but you bring up a valid point. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the cartoon at least, was created to sell toys. It's changed several times over the years in an effort to continue selling toys to children. Okay, they have a lot of other merchandising as well. But I have to admit their continued popularity is evidence they're producing cartoons/toys that kids want. You can't say the same thing for Masters of the Universe or GI Joe. (I understand GI Joe is mostly sold to adult collectors these days not kids.)

 

[Parmandur]

I hadn't considered this but you bring up a valid point. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the cartoon at least, was created to sell toys. It's changed several times over the years in an effort to continue selling toys to children. Okay, they have a lot of other merchandising as well. But I have to admit their continued popularity is evidence they're producing cartoons/toys that kids want. You can't say the same thing for Masters of the Universe or GI Joe. (I understand GI Joe is mostly sold to adult collectors these days not kids.)

The best part is that the Ninja Turrtles were created to parody comics and cartoons designed to sell toys. Like Don Quixote, the parody has greater staying power.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I hadn't considered this but you bring up a valid point. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the cartoon at least, was created to sell toys. It's changed several times over the years in an effort to continue selling toys to children. Okay, they have a lot of other merchandising as well. But I have to admit their continued popularity is evidence they're producing cartoons/toys that kids want. You can't say the same thing for Masters of the Universe or GI Joe. (I understand GI Joe is mostly sold to adult collectors these days not kids.)

I think there's a key difference between the Turtles and GI Joe/MotU, which is that the Turtles are fundamentally kind of edgy and gross and weird and also weirdly relatable to kids. They're freaks from the sewers, who got changed by goo, who like pizza, and even right there, you've got something fundamentally more likely to appeal to a kid than some nonce in a dubious military uniform or a gurning, be-muscled barbarian. It's not that kids won't ever see the latter two types as cool, it's just that their appeal is more temporally limited, both to the era they're created in, and to the kids themselves, who are later on much more likely to be embarrassed by having like MotU than they are TMNT.

I think you can see this in the way no reboot of GI Joe has ever really succeeded, whereas with Turtles reboots, the question mostly is how well do they succeed.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think there's a key difference between the Turtles and GI Joe/MotU, which is that the Turtles are fundamentally kind of edgy and gross and weird and also weirdly relatable to kids. They're freaks from the sewers, who got changed by goo, who like pizza, and even right there, you've got something fundamentally more likely to appeal to a kid than some nonce in a dubious military uniform or a gurning, be-muscled barbarian. It's not that kids won't ever see the latter two types as cool, it's just that their appeal is more temporally limited, both to the era they're created in, and to the kids themselves, who are later on much more likely to be embarrassed by having like MotU than they are TMNT.

I think you can see this in the way no reboot of GI Joe has ever really succeeded, whereas with Turtles reboots, the question mostly is how well do they succeed.

GI Joe is also so American it makes your teeth itch.

 

[Maxperson]

Star Trek and Star Wars are neck and neck for me, especially now that Star Wars has put out a number of good series. Both put out good books. Both put out good series. Both put out bad series. Both put out good and bad movies. I guess for me it comes down to Jedi and the force. That edges Star Wars ahead.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

[re: Potter] moat people I knew who loved the books have started trashing then due to the author's shenanigans destroying what joy there was to be found.

This for me, tbh

 

[Zardnaar]

Star Trek and Star Wars are neck and neck for me, especially now that Star Wars has put out a number of good series. Both put out good books. Both put out good series. Both put out bad series. Both put out good and bad movies. I guess for me it comes down to Jedi and the force. That edges Star Wars ahead.

Star Wars has a better hit to dud ratio. Treks batting 50/50 for the most part. Star Wars 11 main movies 3 are duds.

TV shows 1 dud maybe.
Trek doesn't have much in the middle imho it tends to be good or crap. Star Wars has your RotS, Solos, Mando Season 3 not the best but not bleah.

 

[MGibster]

I think there's a key difference between the Turtles and GI Joe/MotU, which is that the Turtles are fundamentally kind of edgy and gross and weird and also weirdly relatable to kids. They're freaks from the sewers, who got changed by goo, who like pizza, and even right there, you've got something fundamentally more likely to appeal to a kid than some nonce in a dubious military uniform or a gurning, be-muscled barbarian.

The Masters of the Universe line had all sorts of weird and wonderful dolls action figures boys absolutely loved. It was weird and goofy as hell, but they didn't have pizza and maybe that's the key ingredient here. Skeletor has a friggin skull for a head, Beastman was some sort of mutant, Trap Jaw was some sort of mutant cyborg, Moss Man was made of moss, Stinkor was made of stink, and it just never got old. Until it did. I'm not entirely sure why Masters of the Universe went from making $400,000,000 in sales revenue one year to $7,000,000 the next, but I suspect one of the reasons was Mattell dropped the ball when it came to marketing. I don't mean the horrible movie, but the fact that if you wanted to buy the titular He-Man in stores he was not available nor was Skeletor. A kid who turned 6 in 1986 and started watching those He-Man cartoons couldn't buy the figure when he went to Toys R Us he had to settle for other figures he may or may not have seen in the cartoon yet.

GI Joe suffered a problem with parents, or at least Habro was worried about how parents would feel about their toy. When the 3.75 inch action figure was released in 1982, the Joes were, well I hesitate to say more realistic, but they were closer in line to the real life American military. Scarlett was in military intelligence, Snake Eyes was infantry, Stalker was infantry with secondary training as a medic, and each one of them had a rank (both enlisted and officer, and a short biography. But as we had more terrorist acitivites during the 1980s the line switched to a more fanciful science fiction enemy and the Joes themselves became eco warriors or something in the 1990s.

I don't really know if the kids are more able to relate to the turtles. I think those handling the turtles franchise have done a better job of making them relevant to new generations of kids. Which is something both MotU and GI Joe failed to do.

 

[Clint_L]

Here is my argument for Frankenstein: much of the great science fiction to follow, the entire "cautionary" branch of sci-fi, not only has Frankenstein in its genes, but remains directly derivative of it. William Gibson's entire Sprawl trilogy is essentially an updated Frankenstein. The Terminator franchise. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep/Bladerunner. Murderbot, one of my favourite characters in contemporary sci-fi, is essentially a riff on the Monster. And on, and on. I don't think any other work in sci-fi or fantasy has had as much cultural impact. Not even close.

And Mary Shelley was eighteen when she invented it. Mind-blowing.

 

[WillinNewHaven]

Spinning out of another thread: What's the best science fiction or fantasy franchise? You can only pick one.

Firefly