1st Level Cleric Features: War vs. Order

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I'm concerned about the balance between the Order Domain cleric overshadowing the War Domain cleric is terms of combat leadership. This disparate is best shown between the two domains' 1st level level features (Voice of Authority and War Priest). War Priest allows the cleric to make a single weapon attack as a bonus action after taking the Attack action, whereas Voice of Authority allows the cleric to designate an ally to make a single melee attack as a reaction ever time the cleric casts of spell of 1st level or higher.

I'm concerned that Voice of Authority overshadows War Priest in three main ways:

1. Daily usage (except at very love levels)
2. Attack (an extra attack from a GWM barbarian or SA from a rogue will deal much more damage than a similar attack from the cleric him/herself)
3. Triggering Action (beyond 7th level, a cleric isn't going to want to use his/her action to make an attack, but certainly will want to spend it casting a spell)

My question then is whether the War domain's other features make up for this disparity in the two domains' first level ability?

 

[mellored]

War domain is kinda bad in general.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

War domain is kinda bad in general.

Then shouldn't it be improved instead of replaced? Not all war gods are also gods of order?

 

[mellored]

Then shouldn't it be improved instead of replaced? Not all war gods are also gods of order?

I didn't think order was intended as a replacement.

But here's some suggestions on how to improve War. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?631625-About-the-War-Cleric

 

[Leatherhead]

Then shouldn't it be improved instead of replaced? Not all war gods are also gods of order?

They don't improve existing things in 5e. As evidenced by the lack of a Ranger revision. They only issue errata, and sometimes that errata is kind of silly. (I'm looking at you, loading property!)

 

[TwoSix]

Worry about new material when it overshadows good options, not bad options. War Domain needs houseruling, not forcing new domains down to its level.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm concerned about the balance between the Order Domain cleric overshadowing the War Domain cleric is terms of combat leadership. This disparate is best shown between the two domains' 1st level level features (Voice of Authority and War Priest). War Priest allows the cleric to make a single weapon attack as a bonus action after taking the Attack action, whereas Voice of Authority allows the cleric to designate an ally to make a single melee attack as a reaction ever time the cleric casts of spell of 1st level or higher.

I'm concerned that Voice of Authority overshadows War Priest in three main ways:

1. Daily usage (except at very love levels)
2. Attack (an extra attack from a GWM barbarian or SA from a rogue will deal much more damage than a similar attack from the cleric him/herself)
3. Triggering Action (beyond 7th level, a cleric isn't going to want to use his/her action to make an attack, but certainly will want to spend it casting a spell)

My question then is whether the War domain's other features make up for this disparity in the two domains' first level ability?

Consider the new domain an upgrade/stealth errata of the old one, and there is no problem, only a solution.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Consider the new domain an upgrade/stealth errata of the old one, and there is no problem, only a solution.

So domains personifies Ares (Mars), then? Certainly not Order.

 

[Blue]

War clerics specialty seems to be about personal excellence in combat. This is taken from their weapon proficiencies, their features, their channel divinity, and a number of their domain spell selection. This will be the basis if Order clerics overshadow War clerics at what the War domain is intended to do.

Order clerics don't have martial weapon proficiency. With the exception of the generic Divine Strike that half the domains get, they get no class features to improve their own combat ability. Of their domain spells, the only combat buff is Heroism, to ignore the frightened condition and gain a few temp HPs - not a huge boost and not self only.

Looking at this, the Order cleric in no way seems to represent that it is replacing the War cleric, there is really no overlap in the thrust of the war domain and the thrust of the order domain.

Can they do other nifty things that may be more powerful? Sure. So can other domains. War cleric is on the low end of the cleric domain power curve.

Are they positioned to replace the War domain at what War does? Nope.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

They don't improve existing things in 5e. As evidenced by the lack of a Ranger revision. They only issue errata, and sometimes that errata is kind of silly. (I'm looking at you, loading property!)

Which is a shame, really. And I feel they're missing a trick. Though it does depend on their relationship with 5e.

With the proliferation of digital media and tools, they could refine the 5e game system, making it simply better. Much better - They have access to a (seemingly) ever-growing number of potential playtesters and the UA format is relatively cheap while promising great returns (unpaid testers helping to polish a product that gets sold back to them? Pretty smooth!) As far as iterative design practice goes, you couldn't ask for more. They could design, test, get feedback and refine till the system was something truly special. No need for a 6e, or any other editions - just keep the cycle going until its Xth generation, stick a fork in it & done.

Of course, as 5e also exists - and depends (though to how much and for how much longer, I don't pretend to know) on physical copies, which obviously can't be amended after they're published. They could release updates online though... would anyone buy a product they know isn't 'complete'? And how many customers would simply hold out till generation X of the rules, then buy the 'final' version? Things to consider - not insurmountable but still, they'd require a different business model to the one there is now. And seemingly, they're on to a winner, so why change the tune while its 'working'? It'd be one heck of a risk.

Still, I would appreciate and support if they did release revision for content already released. Much as I like new shiny things - and I'm sure they help secure sales through new shiny books & products - I would enjoy a better system, and respect a demonstrated effort of working towards one.