D&D (2024) 1st level monk. Why?

[Chaosmancer]

I haven't finished reading the monk playtest yet, and this isn't about anything past level 2. I just want to talk about first level monks, and try and understand why the design choice is still being made, and also highlight what is the, essentially, only real option monks are getting at low levels.

It has been a long frustration of mine that Monks, at first level, get essentially nothing. Let's make two characters. Each character will have a 16, a 16 and a 13 for their highest three ability scores.

Fighter:
13 hp
16 AC from Chainmail
Dual-Wielding style, deals 1d6+3 with shortsword, vex gives advantage, and then either 1d6+3 shortsword, or scimitar for Nick. This is 13 average damage.
Second Wind.

Monk:
9 hp
16 AC from unarmored defense
Using a staff and unarmed strike, they deal 1d8+3 and then 1d6+3 for 14 damage. But they get no masteries, because Flex is useless to them.
To get a mastery, they will need to deal 1d6+3 and 1d6+3. The only things that aren't vex or nick are slow or sap.

And that really highlights what frustrates me. The Fighter has a wide range of weapon masteries and routes, they can easily improve their AC with more gold, and they have second wind and more hit points. The monk gets essentially nothing at 1st level, other than the ability to have armor and weapons. And this is DEEPLY frustrating to me.

There is, however, one thing the monk can do that will probably be the default for every monk.

Wielding something like daggers, they will activate Nick. This gives a free attack leaving their bonus action free to make another attack. Giving them 1d6+3 +1d6 +1d6+3 for 16.5 damage, but the nick attack doesn't get the bonus from their dexterity, because they don't get dual weapon fighting.

I just, really needed to get that off my chest. Because I find this design choice deeply frustrating every time I see it.

 

[Charlaquin]

I haven't finished reading the monk playtest yet, and this isn't about anything past level 2. I just want to talk about first level monks, and try and understand why the design choice is still being made, and also highlight what is the, essentially, only real option monks are getting at low levels.

It has been a long frustration of mine that Monks, at first level, get essentially nothing. Let's make two characters. Each character will have a 16, a 16 and a 13 for their highest three ability scores.

Fighter:
13 hp
16 AC from Chainmail
Dual-Wielding style, deals 1d6+3 with shortsword, vex gives advantage, and then either 1d6+3 shortsword, or scimitar for Nick. This is 13 average damage.
Second Wind.

How’s the fighter getting Vex on a Shortsword at 1st level?

There is, however, one thing the monk can do that will probably be the default for every monk.

Wielding something like daggers, they will activate Nick. This gives a free attack leaving their bonus action free to make another attack. Giving them 1d6+3 +1d6 +1d6+3 for 16.5 damage, but the nick attack doesn't get the bonus from their dexterity, because they don't get dual weapon fighting.

I hate to break it to you, but monks don’t get to use their martial arts die for weapons in this UA. So it’d be 1d4+3 + 1d4 + 1d6+3 if you went that route.

 

[Asisreo]

I will say this:

Having unarmored defense at low levels means that when the party engages in stealth, you're not negatively impacting that for them. Even when you use group stealth checks, disadvantage can be brutal especially if you didn't pick up the skill and already dumped dex as your physical stat.

 

[mellored]

I will say this:

Having unarmored defense at low levels means that when the party engages in stealth, you're not negatively impacting that for them. Even when you use group stealth checks, disadvantage can be brutal especially if you didn't pick up the skill and already dumped dex as your physical stat.

Also, better initiative, perception, and saving throws. Dex and Wis are their own benefits.

And you can't be disarmed.

 

[Chaosmancer]

How’s the fighter getting Vex on a Shortsword at 1st level?

By having Weapon Masteries? That's the weapon mastery for a shortsword. Scimitar is the one with nick.

I hate to break it to you, but monks don’t get to use their martial arts die for weapons in this UA. So it’d be 1d4+3 + 1d4 + 1d6+3 if you went that route.

Ouch. That just makes this even worse

 

[mellored]

You can also used ranged weapons.

D8 crossbow to slow someone, then punch someone else.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I will say this:

Having unarmored defense at low levels means that when the party engages in stealth, you're not negatively impacting that for them. Even when you use group stealth checks, disadvantage can be brutal especially if you didn't pick up the skill and already dumped dex as your physical stat.

Okay, but the fighter can do the exact same thing by just getting a breastplate. And all that costs is money.

Sure, monks can be stealthy, but compared to rogues or rangers, they aren't NEARLY that stealthy. Not enough to make stealth their primary concern. And, not hurting the party because of a group stealth check seems to be a really poor reason to not get class features at level 1.

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Also, better initiative, perception, and saving throws. Dex and Wis are their own benefits.

Dex fighter has the same initiative and the same saving throws. Actually, they probably have better saves overall, because they have a high dex, prof in strength and a reason to make that a 13 and prof in con saves with a high con.

Sure, the monk may win on perception, but, again, is that worth not having class features? Compare to the Ranger who has dex saves and high wisdom, and about the same AC, and actual class features at level 1. Who also has high initiative, perception, saving throws, ect.

And you can't be disarmed.

A thing that practically never happens. Like, this is supposedly the entire benefit, but it is such a minor thing in the day to day adventuring of a party. A party who is never captured is basically never going to be completely unarmed. And, compare to any caster with V,S spells who is ALSO impossible to disarm.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You can also used ranged weapons.

D8 crossbow to slow someone, then punch someone else.

Monks with ranged weapons have weird incentives to never use any of their monk abilities. Because monks are the ultimate kite.

 

[mellored]

Monks with ranged weapons have weird incentives to never use any of their monk abilities. Because monks are the ultimate kite.

Elemental monk, with ranged melee is pretty great.

Not that's its level 1.

 

[codo]

I like the new monk. It is a lot better than the old version, but it is not quite there yet. I agree that 1st level monks could use something more. Personally I think all monks should be able to apply the 3rd lvl open hand monks abilities to all unarmed strikes. Having said that, a 1st level monk can do 15.5 damage and apply vex once with a dagger and a hand axe. I think that that is the highest at will damage at level 1.