3E/Pathfinder Conversion of the Vampire Bestiary

[eduar]

Howdy Eduar.

Hey U_K

Okay thanks for that. So we know a few things.

your welcome

If I was going to convert stuff over it would need to be massively downsized...dependant upon how they Scale things like Demigods/Demon Lords. If they are CR 30 then it gels with the Epic Level Handbook, except that it caps at 30th. Most of my stuff goes beyond 30th. I suppose the divinity templates could be converted over to Mythic Tiers.

Tiers 1-10 take you up to Demigod
Tiers 11-20 take you up to Greater...? (speculation obviously)
Tiers 21-30 take you to First One...?
Tiers 31-40 take you up to High Lord...?
etc.

yes that was I imagine, I remember you made a similar proposition for 4E, and when I start to see Mythic rules I thought something similar could be applied

Do you think that with this system in place of ELH, will be corrected some of the problems with the mechanics of 3.5?

 

[Upper_Krust]

yes that was I imagine, I remember you made a similar proposition for 4E, and when I start to see Mythic rules I thought something similar could be applied.

Yes, the problem with making these rules for 4E was that the PC powers format is insanely long-winded (which is why I created my freeform Wizard and Fighter class).

I suppose we can wait and see how much space the various Mythic Tier Templates cover. Hopefully it won't be as long-winded as the 4E approach.

But if I did convert the monsters over to these Mythic Rules/Pathfinder, then surely all the monsters would need to take a MASSIVE CR drop.

You could maybe convert Divine Rank so that it paralleled Mythic Tiers on a 1 for 1 basis:

1 Mythic Tier = Disciple
2 = Prophet
3 = Hero-deity
4 = Quasi-deity
6 = Demigod
8 = Lesser God
12 = Intermediate God
16 = Greater God
24 = Elder One
32 = Old One
48 = First One
etc.

That would mean a Seraphim under Pathfinder rules would be CR 52.

...you know I actually quite like the above. Now I really am interested.

Do you think that with this system in place of ELH, will be corrected some of the problems with the mechanics of 3.5?

The epic mechanics yes. Of course it will still have the same problems facing Levels 1-20.

 

[eduar]

Yes, the problem with making these rules for 4E was that the PC powers format is insanely long-winded (which is why I created my freeform Wizard and Fighter class).

I suppose we can wait and see how much space the various Mythic Tier Templates cover. Hopefully it won't be as long-winded as the 4E approach.

But if I did convert the monsters over to these Mythic Rules/Pathfinder, then surely all the monsters would need to take a MASSIVE CR drop.

You could maybe convert Divine Rank so that it paralleled Mythic Tiers on a 1 for 1 basis:

1 Mythic Tier = Disciple
2 = Prophet
3 = Hero-deity
4 = Quasi-deity
6 = Demigod
8 = Lesser God
12 = Intermediate God
16 = Greater God
24 = Elder One
32 = Old One
48 = First One
etc.

That would mean a Seraphim under Pathfinder rules would be CR 52.

...you know I actually quite like the above. Now I really am interested.

That sound very good , I like a lot the Tier idea, is one of the things I like from 4E (except that you only can have one, same in Pathfinder )

The epic mechanics yes. Of course it will still have the same problems facing Levels 1-20.

according to Paizo they believe Mythic can fix some of the problems, I'm not sure how but that would be good

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

I've sent all the Wights and Adze Swarms... so Wendigos next... sorry it's taking so long...

 

[Upper_Krust]

I've sent all the Wights and Adze Swarms... so Wendigos next... sorry it's taking so long...

No worries mate I have been dragging my heels on this (and everything else) lately*.

*...and by lately I mean the past 10 years.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

More Mythic info: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le2a?Mythic-Adventures-Playtest

 

[Upper_Krust]

More Mythic info: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le2a?Mythic-Adventures-Playtest

Thanks for the link mate. I just downloaded the playtest document. Have flicked through it but working tonight so won't have time to read it for a day or two.

 

[Alzrius]

Thanks for the link mate. I just downloaded the playtest document. Have flicked through it but working tonight so won't have time to read it for a day or two.

I read it late last week. Overall, I'm of two minds about it.

On the one hand, it's nice to see them trying to bring "epic" to levels below twenty, though I'm not entirely sure that adding another layer of special abilities is the way to go (but then, you can't stat up a book of flavor-text methods to make things "epic").

From a mechanical standpoint, it's nice to see the math kept fairly simple. Being mythic adds a few feats and special abilities, and that's it.

On the downside, this isn't really epic-level as it was in terms of 3.5. I'm honestly not sure if a level level 20/mythic tier 10 character is the equivalent of a level 30 character in terms of power...though I suspect that the disparity won't be as bad as I'm guessing.

Overall, it's not a bad design at all, but it seems to be aimed at a place that's near level 20+ gaming, but not quite the same area (which may not be a bad thing - more material and testing is required).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

I read it late last week. Overall, I'm of two minds about it.

On the one hand, it's nice to see them trying to bring "epic" to levels below twenty, though I'm not entirely sure that adding another layer of special abilities is the way to go (but then, you can't stat up a book of flavor-text methods to make things "epic").

From a mechanical standpoint, it's nice to see the math kept fairly simple. Being mythic adds a few feats and special abilities, and that's it.

On the downside, this isn't really epic-level as it was in terms of 3.5. I'm honestly not sure if a level level 20/mythic tier 10 character is the equivalent of a level 30 character in terms of power...though I suspect that the disparity won't be as bad as I'm guessing.

Overall, it's not a bad design at all, but it seems to be aimed at a place that's near level 20+ gaming, but not quite the same area (which may not be a bad thing - more material and testing is required).

So far (and I have only sped-read it so not in depth at all), I like the fundamental idea of it (why wouldn't I - its basically divinity templates-lite*).

*

The problem I have with it is that I don't see it doing anything particularly epic (or should that be mythic?). Mythic characters (and monsters) may have some sideways powers that make them stand out, but are they really that different from class abilities?

With WotC's Epic Level Handbook you had a clear idea of that book's design goals were - an extension of the class system to represent the worlds most powerful characters. With the Immortal's Handbook Ascension the design goal was to represent divinity.

Now you can say that the Mythic Rules represent Legendary characters (and monsters). However, the key difference (for me) is that the cap completely kills the sense of scale. Its sort of like one of the flaws with 4E Epic (as per my Ten Commandments of Epic article). Its just 10 extra levels - there is nothing particularly EPIC about it at all. Same with these mythic rules.

Yes, we'll have SLIGHTLY more powerful characters and SLIGHTLY more powerful items and SLIGHTLY more powerful monsters to battle. But a SLIGHT difference doesn't really stand out.

Now I am not saying truly epic rules need unlimited level advancement - far from it. What I am saying is that if you are going to have a LIMIT to Levels (or Tiers) then you need to make every Level be a massive difference EITHER in terms of the characters personal power OR in terms of the world around them (ie. Demigods might be Level 21, Lesser Gods 26, Greater Gods 31, Elder Gods 36 etc.). You really have to condense the scale of things for a level-limited game.

The Mythic rules don't (and can't* ) seem to do the former (condensed player power) and the impression I am getting is that they won't do the latter (condensed world power - where deity levels are within grasp of the tiers).

*because they have a fundamental building block where 1 Mythic Tier = 1 Challenge Rating.

So far, a bit underwhelming.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

OK, I have sent you the last Wendigo.

Should I start on Vampire Monsters or is someone else doing those?

Also, on the subject of Mythic Adventures – do you think you will make Eternity Publishing material that's compatible with it?