4e: A work in progress?

[Drkfathr1]

And the designers have already said that some things that are being held off for future books were things they couldn't quite get right yet. Things they had yet to figure out with the new system.

Which is a little disconcerting.

 

[Rechan]

I the world of Quality Control, there's a difference between completeness and correctness. A thing is complete when it has all the desired features. it is correct when all those features have no bugs.

As far as that analogy goes, 3e was complete, but not correct.

And that analogy, again, may hold for 4e. Very few complex systems are released with no bugs. Even the best testing in the world does not ensure zero bugs will be in the system upon release.

Indeed. Asmor's examples (skill challenges and implementation of solos) are fully complete, but they are rather buggy.

One could make the argument that 4e is incomplete in the sense that certain things were missing (familiars/summoning/illusions, minion/trap creation rules, etc), but that is more a personal opinion as to what makes a Complete D&D game. Nothing was missing that was necessary to run the game from beginning to end.

 

[Rechan]

And the designers have already said that some things that are being held off for future books were things they couldn't quite get right yet. Things they had yet to figure out with the new system.

Which is a little disconcerting.

It's a little disconcerting that they are wanting to develop and playtest something rather than shove it out the door unfinished?

They had a deadline they were trying to meet, and thus decided what was needed, and ran with it, trying to refine the 8 classes and such before putting them out there. I'd rather they have worked on what they did, then chosen to put more on their plate and give it all less time for refinement.

 

[JoeGKushner]

And...

Pathfinder.

How could 3e be complete if Pathfinder is not going to be a straight reprint of the old OGL but is "fixing" the problems of 3e?

 

[Drkfathr1]

It's a little disconcerting that they are wanting to develop and playtest something rather than shove it out the door unfinished?

They had a deadline they were trying to meet, and thus decided what was needed, and ran with it, trying to refine the 8 classes and such before putting them out there. I'd rather they have worked on what they did, then chosen to put more on their plate and give it all less time for refinement.

But see, for some of us, it IS unfinished. Yeah, you can run a game with it, but you have to admit, it sure is missing a whole lot.

They set their own deadline by the way.

I'm not sure the marketing plan of hoping everyone that plays will now buy every book that comes out is a sound one.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Rechan]

And...

Pathfinder.

How could 3e be complete if Pathfinder is not going to be a straight reprint of the old OGL but is "fixing" the problems of 3e?

E6, and Castles & Crusades.

 

[The Ghost]

In some ways though, I think some of this feeling is mis-reading the situation. Its not that 4e at launch is less developed than 3e, its that 4e left obvious points at which new stuff could be added.

This. As far as mechanics go.

I do feel that a lot of the fluff (alignment and deities in particular) were not very well thought out.

 

[Rechan]

But see, for some of us, it IS unfinished. Yeah, you can run a game with it, but you have to admit, it sure is missing a whole lot.

And it is missing a lot because they couldn't get that stuff to work until they spent longer hammering at it.

I'm not sure the marketing plan of hoping everyone that plays will now buy every book that comes out is a sound one.

And despite that marketing plan, I'm certain that everyone can and many will only buy the core books. Or 3rd party material.

No body is making you buy PHB2.

 

[Rechan]

I do feel that a lot of the fluff (alignment and deities in particular) were not very well thought out.

Wait, what? Crack open your 3.5 PHB and look at the deities. There's not a whole lot more there, compared to the 4e PHB.

 

[Drkfathr1]

And it is missing a lot because they couldn't get that stuff to work until they spent longer hammering at it.


And despite that marketing plan, I'm certain that everyone can and many will only buy the core books. Or 3rd party material.

No body is making you buy PHB2.

They certainly aren't.

I'm just explaining to you why I find it all disconcerting, since you found that to be so unbelievable.