D&D 5E 5e: Stat the Lady of Pain...so we can overthrow her

[Vaalingrade]

Anyone that doesn't like Nickelback lacks a fundamental understanding of music.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

And you have a fundamental misunderstanding of my objection to the LoP. Being a lynchpin is fine. Being a special creator's pet who is powerful because we say so is not.

That is what I mean. That is not what “she”’is. There is no clear definition of what it is. We don’t even know that it is a she. Yet you act like their is a set definition of what she is. There isn’t. Her lore is ambiguous. Show could be the ruler of Sigil or it could be her cage. She could be a near all power entity or she could be a title held by a much leaser being. Much of “what” she is riddle and myth.

At least that is my understanding from hearing about her from fans of the setting in person and online.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Being a special creator's pet who is powerful because we say so is not.

As I elaborated that is not what she is, unless you want her to be.

However, what is wrong with this idea. Isn’t that the idea behind all “gods.” So all gods are waste of lore space / world building?

 

[Maxperson]

Evil liked not dying.

Because no non-cultist in the universe want to deal with Lovecraft's leavings.

People tend not to like dying. I don't understand why this is a difficult prospect.

You act as if every NPC, evil god and PC are rational. They aren't. There needs to be a hard stop to destroying a setting.

 

[Maxperson]

Stop. Saying. This. If. You. Aren't. Going. To. Elaborate.

And you have a fundamental misunderstanding of my objection to the LoP. Being a lynchpin is fine. Being a special creator's pet who is powerful because we say so is not.

This is the part that shows you don't understand. So to elaborate, there is no "special creator's pet." That's not what The Lady of Pain is.

 

[Imaro]

Ok I have to ask... @Vaalingrade have you read the AD&D 2e Planescape campaign setting?
And for full transparency... I'm asking because you seem to be arguing under misconceptions about the LoP that would be dispelled by reading just basic material. Also... its not really on any of us to educate you on the subject you have chosen to argue against...especially when you seem dead set on sticking to those misconceptions as opposed to having said misconceptions corrected.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Anyone that doesn't like Nickelback lacks a fundamental understanding of music.

In defense of the basic...

 

[Umbran]

Oooor the point is rabid fandom.

If you want to insult people, leave the thread now, please.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Although apocryphal and hard to verify, it's worth noting that the Lady of Pain has been repeatedly said to be based on Lorraine Williams, who, regardless of where we stand on her now, clearly was not the developers' favorite person at the time of Planescape's development. If this is true, it seems unlikely that they wanted her to be some kind of ultimate author's pet badass.

I disagree about Paradox. It's function is to explain why the magic is confined to a hidden world, rather than Mage being a full on superheroes game, which is what it becomes the second mortals aren't around. Moreover, without paradox, why isn't the world a complete mage-ocracy? Why does it even slightly resemble our world? It's fine if you want to run a magic superhero game, but at that point it's no longer Mage: The Acension, it's Wahoo Magic: 24/7.

More than that, it's a central conceit of not just the gameplay style and the type of game style the developers were making, but also how the reality of the world was supposed to operate. Reality is a consensual worldview construct (complete with the epistemological ramifications thereof), and the other side is winning (complete with plucky rebel/freedom fighter motif). Much of WW WoD was interesting big ideas* executed sometimes poorly. I'll be the first to criticize both some of the implementations WW made of their ideas, and their outward communications, but I can't buy paradox as merely papering over a plot-hole -- it's a fundamental part of what they were trying to do with the game.
*or if one wants to be uncharitable, the ideas that sound big if you're a pot-smoking undergrad taking your first philosophy course

 

[Fifinjir]

I’m in favor of making the Dark Powers vincible, but also think it should take more than just going over to them and beating them up.