A Bestiary question I'm embarrassed to ask...

[SoldierBlue]

Another point...

So this means the vrock discussed in my original post would be able to only rake w/ 1 x claw, 1 x bite, or 1 x talon with a standard action: attack action.

But it could do the fol as a full attack: 2 x claw, 1 x bite, and 2 x talons...four times the number of attacks!

In either scenario, it may be best to keep moving and only allow the vrock/troll/whatever to attack with standard actions...

 

[frankthedm]

In either scenario, it may be best to keep moving and only allow the vrock/troll/whatever to attack with standard actions...

And that is why the Vrock has Telekinesis at will & combat reflexes. Also don't forget, demons are proficient with martial weapons and non classed humaniods like trolls get all simple weapons. A nice large Glaive or large longspear is a wonderful accoutrement that helps if a party wants to play "keep away" because of the way full attacks work.

Vrock (Pathfinder_OGC)

img189.imageshack.us/img189/5804/iwannavrock.png

 

[SoldierBlue]

Thanks for the counters!

However, why would the vrock want to worry about using a martial weapon when its natural attacks (particularly @ full attack mode) are so deadly? Because then wouldn't subsequent attacks with said martial weapon be at -5?

Again, you're killing me with the killer graphics...

 

[SoldierBlue]

So - another query, to which you alluded to earlier. The owlbear can grab (Bestiary p. 224) but not constrict (both are well described under Universal Monster Rules). But if it succeeds in its grab, does it too have the grappled condition (unless it chooses the CMB - 20)?

Can it or can it not continue attacking other foes with its beak and the claw not being used to hold an opponent?

 

[ruemere]

Thanks for the counters!

However, why would the vrock want to worry about using a martial weapon when its natural attacks (particularly @ full attack mode) are so deadly? Because then wouldn't subsequent attacks with said martial weapon be at -5?

Again, you're killing me with the killer graphics...

Reach weapons double your natural reach. Vrock's reach is 10', with a large two-handed reach weapon it will have a reach of 20', 1.5 STR bonus to damage and 1.5 Power Attack damage. Add to this that you can molest opponents with Telekinesis, and you get one scary guy...

For example:
- hurl someone upwards (or drag upwards using telekinesis) and then drop them. Bonus points if you ready action to smack them with that weapon just before they reach the ground.
- pick a stone. 200' feet. 20d6 falling damage at no cost. Bonus points, if the adventurers were sleeping around campfire. Double bonus points if you dropped two stones at the same time (i.e. telekinesis on one stone, carrying the other). Triple bonus points if that was party wizard and you hit him with both stones.
- Tripfest. 20' reach. Poor fighter.
- 50 lbs stone. Greater Teleport. 200'. A city...
- 50 sack filled with shrapnels. Greater Teleport... you know the drill.

And so on.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[ruemere]

So - another query, to which you alluded to earlier. The owlbear can grab (Bestiary p. 224) but not constrict (both are well described under Universal Monster Rules). But if it succeeds in its grab, does it too have the grappled condition (unless it chooses the CMB - 20)?

Yes.

Can it or can it not continue attacking other foes with its beak and the claw not being used to hold an opponent?

It cannot. You cannot have the cake both ways now. In other words, grappling is deadly, but it is more one-on-one sport now than previously.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[SoldierBlue]

And if I'm reading the rules correctly (p. 200 Pathfinder Core rules) the owlbear can only make inflict damage against its grappled creature as per a standard attack; it cannot make a full attack against the grappled creature, nor against anyone else.

I assume that the damage must be inflicted via 1 x claw, as that was the "weapon" used to initiate the grapple (via the grab). This is somewhat irrelevant for the owlbear, as the owlbear's bite is as dangerous as its claw, but can a monster use its bite against a grappled creature, even though it was its claws that caused the grapple in the first place?

I think not, but I'm seeking clarification...

 

[frankthedm]

Thanks for the counters!

more counter sheets right here

However, why would the vrock want to worry about using a martial weapon when its natural attacks (particularly @ full attack mode) are so deadly? Because then wouldn't subsequent attacks with said martial weapon be at -5?

It can drop the weapon if it wants, but 2d8+ two handed damage bonus at 20' reach is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[milo]

That brings up another question I was wondering about concerning large creatures using reach weapons and having a natural attack. If they were to have whirlwind would they be able to hit everything withing 20' or would they have to choose which weapon to use? As posted earlier a reach weapon doubles your reach and you wouldn't be able to hit anything inside of your reach. Then with your natural attack you would be able to hit everything within 10'. As the feat is written it seems like they would be able to hit everything within 20', unless I am missing something.

 

[frankthedm]

As the feat is written it seems like they would be able to hit everything within 20', unless I am missing something.

Depends if the GM wants to consider someone you can't attack "within reach".