A GOOD cleric for Keep on the shadowfell

[FitzTheRuke]

I have 2 questions
1) if someone is at -5, does sacred flame get them to 1?
2) does 1[w] include the +2 damage from the dwarven training feat?
.

1: Temp HP only work on conscious creatures.
2: W refers only to the weapon die.

Fitz

 

[Nifft]

The game seems designed around the idea that you will have an 18, so it looks like a vicious cycle that's here to stay.

Yes, it is unfortunate. But every race can have at least one 18, so it's not all that terrible. You just need to pick the right race for the job.

Also, melee dudes don't strictly need any 18s. If you take a weapon with a +3 proficiency bonus, you can get away with a 16 easy, which means a Dragonborn Paladin has a lot of options for spreading around his stats.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Starbuck_II]

Hey, I noticed the keep cleric sucked. Here is one which, no exaggeration, might have prevented some of the infamous wipes. he has 1 additional encounter heal (ravens blessing) and hits harder and more often than the keep cleric.

Feel free to suggest/discuss modifications.

Level 1 cleric- dwarf.
16 str
18 wis (16+2)
14 con (12+2)
12 cha
10 dex
8 int.

this guy is fairly fragile, with a very low reflex save. play him like a striker rather than defender. one thing that can keep him out of trouble is swapping the greataxe for a halberd. Does reach help keep you out of trouble? not sure.

So what are your defenses?

Fort: 13
Reflex: 10
Will: 16

If you use a Shield you will have 11 or 12 Reflex. Still, most Slinger will hit ya easily.
Granted, KotS Cleric had same issue: he wasn't using a shield and one handed weapon? WT Frell?

 

[Spatula]

I have to say, (and this is going to make me sound old) but I don't understand the modern idea that anything less than an 18 in your class' prime stat is "weak". There was a time when having an 18 at all was just plain munchy.

The game seems designed around the idea that you will have an 18, so it looks like a vicious cycle that's here to stay.

Some players have always been like that. If anything, I think it's a carryover of older editions where most anything lower than a 16 was literally worthless.

But I'd say that 4e is based off having a 16, rather than an 18 or 20, in your prime stat. Whereas 3e assumed a 15. The 4e standard array gives you one 16, one 14, and then it goes down from there. Since most classes have three important ability scores, you are possibly gimping yourself in some way if you spend the points to bump the 16 to an 18. Of course you can take the 16 and increase it to 18 with a racial bonus, but I don't think that is strictly necessary - else there would be no non-human, non-dragonborn fighters.

Granted, KotS Cleric had same issue: he wasn't using a shield and one handed weapon? WT Frell?

Clerics don't start with any shield proficiency.

 

[DSRilk]

No one needs an 18. As a general rule all it does is give you +1 hit and damage. The +1 damage is virtually invisible and while +1 to hit is decent, it's not make or break. Especially given that going from 14 to 16 could instead bring an 11 to a 14 -- and going from +0 to +2 in a different stat is often more than an equitable exchange. It's really just a matter of preference -- both builds will work fine.

 

[Xsjado]

Personally I'd dump dex instead of int. Int is useful for his rituals and several of his skills. Then again my initative rolls are notoriously poor so 1 point of dex modifier never helped me

 

[phil500]

I have to say, (and this is going to make me sound old) but I don't understand the modern idea that anything less than an 18 in your class' prime stat is "weak". There was a time when having an 18 at all was just plain munchy.

The game seems designed around the idea that you will have an 18, so it looks like a vicious cycle that's here to stay.

Fitz

Yeah, it is a part of game design in a sense: some of the clerics heals/buffs rely on him hitting with wis or str to trigger. I cant recall anything like that in 3.5.

Its also a part of point buy and the racial bonuses.

Pointing this out doesnt make you sound old. saying "munchy" does

 

[Nifft]

Yeah, it is a part of game design in a sense: some of the clerics heals/buffs rely on him hitting with wis or str to trigger.

Exactly.

I played the Cleric (among others) in some pre-4e skirmishes, and it royally sucked to be trying to help a buddy out with a save or some temporary hit points or an attack bonus, and failing to do even that.

The +1 or +2 to attack really matters.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Relic]

As for this guy- i thought more and realized halberd is the way to go. you can stay just out of reach of a guy who the ftr is tanking, hitting him with righteous brand. im not sure which is better, but +3 to attack is pretty good compared to +3 temp hp. think of it as "preventive medicine"

Clerics only have proficiency with simple melee weapons. Halberd is classified as a military melee weapon. Dwarf training gives the cleric proficiency in the great axe; if not for that, the cleric would be limited to a great club, morningstar, quarterstaff, or scythe as a two-handed weapon. (or a mace or spear as a versatile weapon).

 

[DarkJester]

Well, dwarven weapon training gives proficiency with axes and hammers. It doesn't specify which axes and hammers, and halberd is an axe so it would qualify.