A Humble Request: A Non-Vancian "Leader" in the PHB

[ZombieRoboNinja]

For a non-Vancian Buffer, this doesn't help too much, but it is my understanding that this thread is focused on the side of leaders that promotes HP gain.

Actually, I'm personally more interested in the 4e-style "leader" aspect, not the "band-aid dispenser" aspect. But everyone seems a little gunshy about explicitly linking classes to particular 4e roles in this edition (thus "defender" as a theme), so I tried to word it as broadly as possible.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Leader, schmeader. Leadership is action, not position.

None needed.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I'd like the Ranger to become something like a 'Healer' class - that is they are specialists in survival, including being able to save lives in a medical and inspirational sense.

My ideal Ranger would differentiate themselves from being Fighters by being tougher (d12 HD), but less focussed on combat styles and more on travel, hunting and survival skills accordingly. They would also be based upon Constitution as their primary stat.

 

[steeldragons]

Actually, I'm personally more interested in the 4e-style "leader" aspect, not the "band-aid dispenser" aspect. But everyone seems a little gunshy about explicitly linking classes to particular 4e roles in this edition (thus "defender" as a theme), so I tried to word it as broadly as possible.

I don't think they're gunshy...I think they (and I'm including myself in the "they") don't want any inkling of 4e-style "roles" in the game. (and, just to say it one more time, attributing the term "leader" to the guys that can heal?...just stupid.)

I'm pretty sure they've already said there won't be "roles" [in the 4e sense] in 5e.

Which makes this whole thread something of a simple mental exercise...Enjoyable! I like thinking and working out these kindsa things. But not influential in any way. It's a "what if/what would you like to be" kinda thing. Which is fun to think about...at least, for me.

5e will not have "leaders" in a 4e sense...unless they slap them [all "roles"] into some optional "rules" or fluff module. So it's fun to talk/suppose about...but it's not going to amount to anything.

Thank the gods.
--SD

 

[Tuft]

I don't think they're gunshy...I think they (and I'm including myself in the "they") don't want any inkling of 4e-style "roles" in the game. (and, just to say it one more time, attributing the term "leader" to the guys that can heal?...just stupid.)

That said, I think there really ought to be a place for a class that actually does lead, in the sense of giving orders and telling people what to do, not as a "sanitation engineer" style euphemism for buffing and healing. It could for example have a pool of NPC minions or henchmen, or even swarm-style troops. For those of you who have played the City of Heroes MMO, see the Mastermind class there.

 

[Herschel]

I don't think they're gunshy...I think they (and I'm including myself in the "they") don't want any inkling of 4e-style "roles" in the game. (and, just to say it one more time, attributing the term "leader" to the guys that can heal?...just stupid.)

I'm pretty sure they've already said there won't be "roles" [in the 4e sense] in 5e.

Which makes this whole thread something of a simple mental exercise...Enjoyable! I like thinking and working out these kindsa things. But not influential in any way. It's a "what if/what would you like to be" kinda thing. Which is fun to think about...at least, for me.

5e will not have "leaders" in a 4e sense...unless they slap them [all "roles"] into some optional "rules" or fluff module. So it's fun to talk/suppose about...but it's not going to amount to anything.

Thank the gods.
--SD

Too bad the roles have ALWAYS been part of the game. God-forbid the game have design elements that actually lets you do your thing better without overshadowing others. Codifying and actually working with them doesn't suspend immersion, it suspends denial.

 

[stoloc]

I don't think they're gunshy...I think they (and I'm including myself in the "they") don't want any inkling of 4e-style "roles" in the game. (and, just to say it one more time, attributing the term "leader" to the guys that can heal?...just stupid.)

I'm pretty sure they've already said there won't be "roles" [in the 4e sense] in 5e.

Which makes this whole thread something of a simple mental exercise...Enjoyable! I like thinking and working out these kindsa things. But not influential in any way. It's a "what if/what would you like to be" kinda thing. Which is fun to think about...at least, for me.

5e will not have "leaders" in a 4e sense...unless they slap them [all "roles"] into some optional "rules" or fluff module. So it's fun to talk/suppose about...but it's not going to amount to anything.

Thank the gods.
--SD

I would much rather have the "Leader" role than the "Healbot" role which too often was seen prior to 4e and has already reared it's ugly head in 5e.

So far there has already been Healbots, tanks, skillmonkeys and strikers shown (pelor cleric, moradin cleric, rogue, fighter) so to say there aren't roles in 5e is silly- yes it's accomplished differently than 4e but they are still there (just like it was before 4e).

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I don't think they're gunshy...I think they (and I'm including myself in the "they") don't want any inkling of 4e-style "roles" in the game. (and, just to say it one more time, attributing the term "leader" to the guys that can heal?...just stupid.)

I'm pretty sure they've already said there won't be "roles" [in the 4e sense] in 5e.

Which makes this whole thread something of a simple mental exercise...Enjoyable! I like thinking and working out these kindsa things. But not influential in any way. It's a "what if/what would you like to be" kinda thing. Which is fun to think about...at least, for me.

5e will not have "leaders" in a 4e sense...unless they slap them [all "roles"] into some optional "rules" or fluff module. So it's fun to talk/suppose about...but it's not going to amount to anything.

Thank the gods.
--SD

I was kind of hoping to avoid all these terminology arguments in this thread.

Let's put it this way:

1. The cleric does something in 5e.

2. The cleric uses Vancian spells.

3. I don't like Vancian spells but like doing clericky things.

4. Every time anyone complains about Vancian spells, someone says "don't play a Vancian caster then." Easy enough if I want to play an arcane caster, since there are warlocks and/or sorcerers available. But what replaces a cleric?

 

[Fifth Element]

Leader, schmeader. Leadership is action, not position.

None needed.

Capital-L Leader, not leader. It has everything to do with actions.

 

[Lwaxy]

I'll ban Vancian for the most part anyway, so I'd like all of the magics to go non-Vancian at least as options.