D&D 5E Another monk thread! Fixing the Way of the 4 Elements

[Sacrosanct]

Since we've been on a monk thing the past couple weeks....

We all (or almost all) agree that the 4e monk is lacking. I think this is due to it being in the core PHB, so it wasn't designed with the benefit of having experience of 5e or a lot of playtesting behind it to catch that it was lacking. Much the same as the ranger BM. Unlike the BM, we haven't seen a revised version of it.

But I'd like to give my thoughts. If I were to create a Wot4E monk now, this is how I'd do it, with the caveat that we'd try to keep it as close to the original as possible.

Current:
At 3rd level, you get one essential cantrip, and one elemental feature. Gain an additional feature at 6th, 11th, and 17th level. By spending additional ki, you can upcast some of these features.

It appears that 1st and 2nd level spells cost 2 ki, 3rd level 4 ki, etc. I'm going to keep this template going forward.

New:
At 3rd level choose an element specialty: fire, lightning/thunder, water/acid, or earth/force. You also get elemental attunement and can learn 1 elemental discipline. Rather than a defined list, choose any spell off of any list that has a primary element of of your specialty that is level 1 or 2. Spend 2 ki points to use this ability. Also learn one cantrip that has one of the above elements of your specialty.

At 6th level, use a reaction when the target of an elemental attack that is also your specialty, gain resistance to that attack, and gain 1 ki point for every three levels of monk you have (rounded down). You can use this ability a number of times per long rest equal to your WIS modifier. Gain an additional discipline of your specialty of level 3 or less.

At 11th level, choose another specialty, to now have 2 specialties, and choose a cantrip from any spell list that falls under that new specialty, and a new discipline of level 4 or less that falls under your specialty.

At level 17, gain all four specialties, and two additional cantrips of the two new specialties, as well as an additional discipline of level 5 or less.

Upcasting remains. Gain an additional feature and replace discipline at 6th, 11th, and 17th level remains

Thoughts? Would this fix it? Be too much? Too little? I wanted a ki regenerating mechanic in there somewhere.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The Open Fist Monk works because it means that when you spend ki points in the same ways you do better with them, improving your flurry of blows. The Way of Shadows Monk gives you places to spend ki points that aren't combat.

But when most of your spells are combat spells and you're casting one burning hands for two stunning fists it really isn't going to work. They are not only alternatives to what you already get but the Way of Elements monk is too expensive. The absorbtion power is nicely thematic but only comes up rarely.

The Reddit version is not too bad.

 

[Guy Icognito]

Every other spellcasting classes gets spells AND spell slots to cast them.
Way of Five Elements just gets the spells and needs to use existing resources to cast. It can't do more per day.

An easy fix would be getting 1 free use of each power per short rest 'n' an extra use by spending ki.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Every other spellcasting classes gets spells AND spell slots to cast them.
Way of Five Elements just gets the spells and needs to use existing resources to cast. It can't do more per day.

An easy fix would be getting 1 free use of each power per short rest 'n' an extra use by spending ki.

That's what the added cantrips are for. A way to be thematic and effective while also not needing to burn through ki. Ki is more for the other stuff that is either more powerful, or another monk ability.

 

[Laurefindel]

Every other spellcasting classes gets spells AND spell slots to cast them.
Way of Five Elements just gets the spells and needs to use existing resources to cast. It can't do more per day.

An easy fix would be getting 1 free use of each power per short rest 'n' an extra use by spending ki.

Yes. I’d be nice if the 4e monk had the equivalent of a 1/3 caster progression on top of it’s base monk ki.

The obvious pitfall is to make it a monk with way more ki than others, which could be used to fuel flurries and stunning strikes. My « fix » is to give it spell slots like eldritch knight, and the ability to convert ki points into spell slots like the does sorcerer with sorcery points. But you’re stuck with the baggage of (pseudo) vancian casting.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Perhaps the Regen mechanic could be:

Level 6: ki focus. Spend and action focusing your mind, drawing energies into you. Recover a number of ki points equal to your wisdom modifier, up to your max. This ability can be used once per short rest.

 

[i_dont_meta]

Additionally, the Class Features UA included an ability for the Monk to use a Bonus Action to make an unarmed attack whenever they burn a Ki point. Not on the same redesign level as the Ranger, but at least they're showing some love.

 

[Leatherhead]

Honestly the 4 elements monk kind of fails at what it was attempting to accomplish: Be one of the Benders from Avatar (the TV show, not the movie, it's on netflix now)

The first step on getting it back on track would be to gut it. Spending Ki points to cast spells might be salvageable, but subclasses want to do the cool thing that they signed up for all the time. Like how the Shadow Monk can just Teleport all day long. To facilitate that, work in an ability where their unarmed strikes passively do elemental damage, preferably without costing ki (and lets face it, it wouldn't be overpowered on a monk who already has magic headbutts at level 6, they just get to have that kind of thing a little earlier than the other monks for style.)

Don't get me wrong, I love cantrips, and especially the EE cantrips that just let you mess around with elements. But that's not a core class power, that's a ribbon.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The trick with always on without spending ki is not to overpower the other monks.

So maybe at level 3, you can change your attacks to be the element of your chosen specialty if you want. Your unarmed attacks do cold damage, or fire damage, or lightning damage, or force damage. That could come in handy as you face monsters resistant to non magical weapons and other element types.

And when you flurry, you can add an additional 1d6 of the damage type to your flurry attacks?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yes. I’d be nice if the 4e monk had the equivalent of a 1/3 caster progression on top of it’s base monk ki.

The obvious pitfall is to make it a monk with way more ki than others, which could be used to fuel flurries and stunning strikes. My « fix » is to give it spell slots like eldritch knight, and the ability to convert ki points into spell slots like the does sorcerer with sorcery points. But you’re stuck with the baggage of (pseudo) vancian casting.

Well, yes, the ki Regen could be used to fuel those other core monk abilities, but then they wouldn't he able to fuel their actual elemental disciplines. Which I'm good with, if the player chooses to use ki on other abilities, they aren't getting the subclass features, so they aren't overpowering the other monks who don't have as much ki, but get other bonuses.

I would strongly be against adding another managed resource to monks on top of ki.