Anthony Valterra breaks his silence

[Galaurum]

Which is why the ancients prohibited laypeople from reading certain books from the Bible (especially the Song of Songs) until they reached a certain age (the customary age was 25).

True enough. But, is such a prohibition in effect today?

 

[Galaurum]

BOEF's press release.

I edited my first post and added a small bit to the end of the paragraph mentioning the Bible. A few other thoughts I didn't mention in my first post:

It has been mentioned that the press release for the BOEF was poorly written. I'm just getting into the issue, so it was only after I wrote that post that I first went to valarproject.com and read the press release. Poorly written, some say? I agree wholly. While I think the Book itself is a great idea, its advertising is nearly shooting itself in the foot. First of all, the phrase "Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game" is pretty misleading. Is the Book really meant to create a Roleplaying Game whose purpose is devoted entirely to sexual roleplaying? If so, then I've been misled so far. If not, then I have the general idea right, but that phrase is misleading.

And presenting the book for the people who "fantasized about Arwen" or wondering about Conan, etc.? That gives the impression that the book is for people who fantasize about sex--which is not so exclusionary, but might well be misconstrued for perverse-minded nymphomaniacs.

As for the gaming group being college-age and up: well, I admit, I haven't exactly conducted my own polls. But my friends were at least dabbling in D&D back in the sixth and seventh grades, if not getting into it. Besides, is the goal here to present the idea that the entire gaming audience is already of adult age? It seems better to offer it to the adult-aged members of the gaming group at large, regardless of demographics.

The final paragraph boasts the innovative imagery. I think little needs to be said about the way that impresses upon readers.

So, the sum of the press release?
- A "Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game"? A game ABOUT roleplaying sexual encounters?
- This books is targeted towards fantasizers.
- This book is targeted toward the audience whose demographics just happen to be college-age and up. (Seriously, the same poll conducted by two parties with very different purposes will produce very different results. Of COURSE Valarproject's results show that the demographics are college-age and up.)
- Innovatively-realistic imagery.

That doesn't seem like a useful gaming supplement so much as a peep-show in rulebook disguise.

In light of reading this, I'm a little more sympathetic to those who were offended. I still don't think that, once all things are considered, anybody SHOULD be offended. But, I do sympathize in spite of that, now that I know what gave them the impressions they got. I still support the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

I read somewhere, however, that Wizards is so irritated that the Open Gaming License might be destroyed. Does anyone have any details on this?

 

[Dr. Harry]

Re: Why controversy?

It's ridiculous. Really.

Your use of combative language right out of the gate makes we wonder if this is a troll. Would you like to close this thread? I'm sure there are plenty of things you could try and post directly that would do it. I do admit that trying to move the thread into discussing personal religion/politics/philosphy is an effective way to get it closed, especially if the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you are "ridiculous", right off the bat.

Someone has already mentioned on this thread that they would not associate with people who got this book.

I have not seen that posted, though I may well have missed it. I have seen -amd advocated- the idea that one should choose one store over another depending on whether the first store chooses to carry material one considers offensive, while the second store does not.

Secondly, has the DM become a tyrannical figure?

But of course

C'mon ... is this a troll?

The book is not a dirty magazine. It's a rulebook.

"What it is" is only known through the press release, with (later) some posts from those involved. I think these have justified most of the posts you seem to be reacting to.

And to anyone opposing the BOEF on the grounds that it's against Christian morals: I would have you re-read the Bible. I bear no animosity toward Christians--my parents, and much of my extended family are Christian--but, I've seen a complaint of "Oh, that's terrible!" too many times when their very own holy book contains plenty of sex and violence in itself. And that's okay, too.

The "But some of my best friends are xxx" cover.

I would recommend the you speak with some to get a range of reactions. Please make sure you show them the press release, as well as a tour of the photographer's website, cited in the press release.

With regard to the content of the Bible, again, it is a matter of context. I would say there is a certain range between, say, the Song of Solomon, and, say, the photos on the photographers web site.

My questions are a little different than the usual:

1) Those who are offended: truly, why?
2) To Wizards of the Coasts' having taken offense: why?

Again, moving this into a religious/political/philosophical discussion aimed at bringing forth the positions of individual posters will - I am fairly confident - get this yanked pretty quick. Plus, if you cannot read all of these threads to get an idea of the wide of reasons for revulsion, I don't think it would do any good to restart it now. There are plenty of posts in which this is discussed.

 

[Galaurum]

Your use of combative language right out of the gate makes we wonder if this is a troll. Would you like to close this thread? I'm sure there are plenty of things you could try and post directly that would do it. I do admit that trying to move the thread into discussing personal religion/politics/philosphy is an effective way to get it closed, especially if the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you are "ridiculous", right off the bat.

Whoa ... getting a thread closed is the last thing I wanted. I think the behavior is ridiculous, but I didn't start calling names or whatever. If that's considered trolling, then I'm sorry, and I retract the statement. Consider this a public apology.

The "DM becoming a tyrannical figure" is rhetorical. I don't believe the DM has become anything like this. The DM is in charge of the story, etc., but ultimately the DM exists to serve the players, and the reverse is kinda true too--in a kinda different way, but still. For the most part, the whole arrangement is for mutual benefit.

The "But some of my best friends are xxx" cover.
I would recommend the you speak with some to get a range of reactions.

Please make sure you show them the press release, as well as a tour of the photographer's website, cited in the press release.

With regard to the content of the Bible, again, it is a matter of context. I would say there is a certain range between, say, the Song of Solomon, and, say, the photos on the photographers web site.

Whoa. Not at all. If the statement came off as a "cover," it wasn't my intention.

Yes, there is plenty of difference between the Bible and such photos. And they serve totally different purposes--I know. I was not comparing the Bible to pornography. Pornography is gratuitous. As I currently understand it, the BOEF is meant not as gratuitous pornography (though its advertising has me reconsidering....), but as a way to add a new dimension to gaming, with its own universe of possibilities. If things are taken too far, then there will be more focus on Erotic Fantasy than Adventure, and that's bad. However, adventures can involve complex romance as well as complex battles. That, I think, is where the BOEF could come in handy.

Again, moving this into a religious/political/philosophical discussion aimed at bringing forth the positions of individual posters will - I am fairly confident - get this yanked pretty quick.

Then, I retract those quesitons, too. Like I said, the last thing I wanted is to get any threads locked.

But honestly, isn't the entire purpose of a forum to "bring forth the positions of individual posters?" I always thought that the way a forum works is that everyone puts forth their opinion on whatever subject, and after enough discussion, a consensus is reached. Or not. But even if no consensus is reached, then you've at least been exposed to a variety of viewpoints in reading, and you can use those to shape your thinking, and your future posts.

But that's just me, and if you're sure that going in that direction is bad, then I'll keep such ideas silent in the future. But thank you for warning me about the thread.

 

[dcas]

Re: BOEF's press release.

I read somewhere, however, that Wizards is so irritated that the Open Gaming License might be destroyed. Does anyone have any details on this?

The OGL is "perpetual." (The D20 STL is not, but the BOEF is not being published under the D20 STL AFAICT.) Even if Wizards came out with a new version of the OGL that was not perpetual, third-party publishers would still be able to use a prior version of the OGL.

There are probably some things Wizards could do to gain better control over what third-party publishers do. Perhaps they could designate more stuff as Product Identity.

 

[Zaruthustran]

<Conspiracy theory>

I find it interesting that AV said that he was upset that he was leaving WotC because he was just about to start a FR campaign.

I find it interesting that he didn't respond to the ENWorlder that first pointed this out.

</conspiracy theory>


"Planned transition" indeed. C'mon, the timing is too perfect. Someone at arch-conservative Hasbro got upset, and AV was asked to leave.

That's fine for AV, but I'm worried that Hasbro will harbor even more ill will toward D&D. That's not fine for us.

-z

 

[Dr. Harry]

Whoa ... getting a thread closed is the last thing I wanted. I think the behavior is ridiculous, but I didn't start calling names or whatever. If that's considered trolling, then I'm sorry, and I retract the statement. Consider this a public apology..

Sorry about that, then. I still think that discussions that go into individual religious beliefs, political beliefs, or philosophical beliefs will get closed down pretty quickly.

The "DM becoming a tyrannical figure" is rhetorical.

I tried to put in a smiley-face after that sentence.

Yes, there is plenty of difference between the Bible and such photos. And they serve totally different purposes--I know. I was not comparing the Bible to pornography. Pornography is gratuitous. As I currently understand it, the BOEF is meant not as gratuitous pornography (though its advertising has me reconsidering....), but as a way to add a new dimension to gaming, with its own universe of possibilities. If things are taken too far, then there will be more focus on Erotic Fantasy than Adventure, and that's bad. However, adventures can involve complex romance as well as complex battles. That, I think, is where the BOEF could come in handy.

We have several sources, some of which are providing contradictory information. Starting from the press release, we will have a heavily photo-illustrated book (with *some* photos that are not nudes), by a photographer whose primary qualification (again, from the press release) is as a fetish photographer while Anthony Valterra's background in S&M is relavent enough to the material to be mentioned. Most of the author posts, at least on these boards, seem to be backing away from that.

But honestly, isn't the entire purpose of a forum to "bring forth the positions of individual posters?" I always thought that the way a forum works is that everyone puts forth their opinion on whatever subject, and after enough discussion, a consensus is reached. Or not. But even if no consensus is reached, then you've at least been exposed to a variety of viewpoints in reading, and you can use those to shape your thinking, and your future posts.

Quite true, but as this is a moderated board, we accept certain topic-specific limits to keep focused on the gaming material. Treading carefully near the hot-button issues (religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin) helps keep tempers in check.

I have felt at some times that the moderators were "quick on the draw" to shut down a thread, but, it is their board and ya don't argue balls and strikes with the umpire.

I agree with your outlook as written in the last paragraph, and I could explain why I won't be getting it, or hoping to see it in my FLGS, but I get the idea that discussing the philosophical reasoning *here* would be crossing an ENWorld line.

 

[jdavis]

!. Leave the bible out please, it's against the rules, not important, and is way too touchy a subject.

2. Lets not fight it out here, they will shut it down ( I ran my mouth in another thread last night and they yanked it immediately, By the way I am terribly sorry I allowed myself to get dragged into that and I apologize for not self editing).

3. This is the thread for questions to AV about the product not for our discussion of it.

4. Yes people did say they would kick people out of their group and or not associate with them if they brought the book up in game, (in other threads I haven't seen that in this thread). That's a discussion for one of the other threads though, I really don't want to see this thread get closed as it is the best source for accurate information on this book we have here at EN world.

 

[Anthony Valterra]

When is your departure from WotC "official" (i.e., what day is your last day on the job)?

This coming Friday.

AV

 

[Anthony Valterra]

Haven't been able to root around the Valar website that much yet so I apologize if this question is covered there.

Does Valar have a mission statement or a company goal in regards to the general product line it will be creating? Will it all be adult content, will it all be erotic in nature or will it be a general game company with some adult niche products? I'm sure that would be hard to answer definitively with such a new company but I was just looking for some thoughts and ideas on what to expect from the product line in general.

I find the idea of a adult product line intriguing and while the BoEF may not be very useful to my campaign more adult level material would be most welcome.

It is still a bit in flux but currently our goal is to provide adult content RPG material. Not just erotic. We are taking suggestions for future products at the site. Which should be functioning better today.

AV