TaranTheWanderer
Legend
Thanks all for the help, it really helped me figure it all out. You all get xp...after I wait 300 seconds...
Bard Advice: how much can I dump combat stats?
UngeheuerLich
Legend
If you refresh the site you get around the 300 sec restriction...
chunkosauruswrex
First Post
Armor of agathys would be much much better for you than shield. With your dex the extra hp will go a lot further and if it's melee attacks then you have a nice surprise to give back
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Yes. Armor of agathys is one of the best spells of 1st level. 5hp per spell level and a strong discouragement from attacking you. At 1st level it is quite bad. But cast at level 3 it might do about as much damage as a fireball. Especially if you also have spell that reduces damage like bladeward or gaseous form which I would not recommend on their own.
rgoodbb
Adventurer
Thanks for the invite!
Might I suggest the Alert Feat. (He's old yes but he's still got his faculties and he may be a little paranoid enough to keep him awake). Alert: Never be surprised and Go first if you can. Then you can Bane/Greater Invisibility/Synaptic Static/Dimension Door/Misty Step/Mirror Image/or anything else before they get a go. Bamph, Hide or De-buff their next attacks before they know it.
I also second Inspiring Leader. 15 THP is not only not bad for you, but then you don't feel guilty standing behind the buffed Barb or the Giant Constrictor while they take the damage.
Have you played this guy yet? Always interested in hearing about actual play of Bards.
Might I suggest the Alert Feat. (He's old yes but he's still got his faculties and he may be a little paranoid enough to keep him awake). Alert: Never be surprised and Go first if you can. Then you can Bane/Greater Invisibility/Synaptic Static/Dimension Door/Misty Step/Mirror Image/or anything else before they get a go. Bamph, Hide or De-buff their next attacks before they know it.
I also second Inspiring Leader. 15 THP is not only not bad for you, but then you don't feel guilty standing behind the buffed Barb or the Giant Constrictor while they take the damage.
Have you played this guy yet? Always interested in hearing about actual play of Bards.
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
No I haven’t played him yet. If I go 2 feats that means only 18 charisma. Do you think that’s ok? Chances are I will level to 11th very soon(the party is overdue) but 11th will be a long haul but I can probably wait until 12th for the boost.
Your suggestion of bane is interesting and synaptic static looks awesome. There isn’t much combat overall. Lots of plotting and then big fights. I was looking at a lot of the utility spells. The group is trying to organize a resistance against the theocratic government so long range communication and propaganda spells would be useful. It’s a campaign where skywrite is an actual useful spell. But I need some good support for those big fights also. And so many choices for Spell Secretd...
Got any advice for useful bard tricks of the trade or spell combinations?
rgoodbb
Adventurer
I think you could live with an 18 in Charisma. It's not too far off until your next ASI. However you might not want to and could go the other way around with a Feat later.
I assume you know about the low level Disguise Self and Friends combo? Before approaching an enemy, you disguise yourself as an acquaintance, cast Friends on them to persuade them to do something and then quickly get out of there. The side effect of Friends is quite nasty. They will believe their ally has tried to manipulate them and will seek out terrible vengeance. Divide and Conquer. Perfect for your campaign? (I assume you have good Deception (Expertise?) from your backstory.)
When you get high enough, Mass Suggestion is mighty, both in and outside of combat. Affect up to 12 folks and no concentration! My personal fave with 2nd level Suggestion is to advise the spellcaster to be quiet or they will be targeted: No verbal spells. Ha!
Bane/Synaptic Static/Cutting Words/Counterspell is a good staple if you wish to pursue de-buffing. If it is a long battle, add a little Mockery for extra flavour. Bards make excellent Counterspellers. Among the best alongside Subtle Sorcerers.
Dimension Door is great for getting your buddies out of a sticky situation. Especially downed buddies. They will thank you for it. The bard really shouldn't be doing tonnes of damage in combat but they have a superb spell list that ensures they can support, buff and de-buff, and even bonus action heal.
Your spell list has a lot of illusions. If you like those and the DM is amenable, they can be quite powerful. They are not for everyone though. I'm personally hit and miss with illusions. If I have something pre-planned, I'm OK, but sometimes in the pace of battle I quickly overlook Illusions as my creative mind doesn't always move as fast as I would like.
Depending on how good your deception is and how much you like Disguise shenanigans, the Actor feat might be right up your street as well. Depends on your preferred playstyle.
Don't forget the simple things. Mage hand, Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation are cantrips I just can't live without. You can pull out an awful lot of utility with them. Even at later levels. There are some good combo's with them alone. Cast the mage hand in a bag. Have it slowly moving about. Add noises and awful smells and then threaten someone with what horror is lurking inside. Alternatively cast it on someone's back and tell them they have a poisonous spider there. Place three moving red dots on a guard and tell them they have three mage snipers trained on them. Limitless utility and dozens of creative threads about them.
I assume you have read the Bard handbooks/guides from the Wiki Thread. There is a ton of great advice to scour over there as well as other spellcaster guides for your magical secrets.
Secret Spell Choices: There are some obvious powerful ones but don't feel obliged to take them just because. Whatever seems fun is what you will probably use. I remember taking a spell because everyone told me that I really should and I never really used it, because it didn't fit in with my particular style of play. If you find you are not using a particular spell from your Secret selection, swap it out as soon as you level up. That selection is too important not to.
If your campaign is more socially focussed, you couldn't have picked a better class/subclass. Bards have great social skills and spells. Dominate Person might be good, even normally niche spells like Speak with Dead or Dream could be really useful. Building/designing Characters is so much fun. Bards are so much fun. Have fun. And tell us how it goes.
Hope some of this was helpful/interesting. Cheers.
I assume you know about the low level Disguise Self and Friends combo? Before approaching an enemy, you disguise yourself as an acquaintance, cast Friends on them to persuade them to do something and then quickly get out of there. The side effect of Friends is quite nasty. They will believe their ally has tried to manipulate them and will seek out terrible vengeance. Divide and Conquer. Perfect for your campaign? (I assume you have good Deception (Expertise?) from your backstory.)
When you get high enough, Mass Suggestion is mighty, both in and outside of combat. Affect up to 12 folks and no concentration! My personal fave with 2nd level Suggestion is to advise the spellcaster to be quiet or they will be targeted: No verbal spells. Ha!
Bane/Synaptic Static/Cutting Words/Counterspell is a good staple if you wish to pursue de-buffing. If it is a long battle, add a little Mockery for extra flavour. Bards make excellent Counterspellers. Among the best alongside Subtle Sorcerers.
Dimension Door is great for getting your buddies out of a sticky situation. Especially downed buddies. They will thank you for it. The bard really shouldn't be doing tonnes of damage in combat but they have a superb spell list that ensures they can support, buff and de-buff, and even bonus action heal.
Your spell list has a lot of illusions. If you like those and the DM is amenable, they can be quite powerful. They are not for everyone though. I'm personally hit and miss with illusions. If I have something pre-planned, I'm OK, but sometimes in the pace of battle I quickly overlook Illusions as my creative mind doesn't always move as fast as I would like.
Depending on how good your deception is and how much you like Disguise shenanigans, the Actor feat might be right up your street as well. Depends on your preferred playstyle.
Don't forget the simple things. Mage hand, Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation are cantrips I just can't live without. You can pull out an awful lot of utility with them. Even at later levels. There are some good combo's with them alone. Cast the mage hand in a bag. Have it slowly moving about. Add noises and awful smells and then threaten someone with what horror is lurking inside. Alternatively cast it on someone's back and tell them they have a poisonous spider there. Place three moving red dots on a guard and tell them they have three mage snipers trained on them. Limitless utility and dozens of creative threads about them.
I assume you have read the Bard handbooks/guides from the Wiki Thread. There is a ton of great advice to scour over there as well as other spellcaster guides for your magical secrets.
Secret Spell Choices: There are some obvious powerful ones but don't feel obliged to take them just because. Whatever seems fun is what you will probably use. I remember taking a spell because everyone told me that I really should and I never really used it, because it didn't fit in with my particular style of play. If you find you are not using a particular spell from your Secret selection, swap it out as soon as you level up. That selection is too important not to.
If your campaign is more socially focussed, you couldn't have picked a better class/subclass. Bards have great social skills and spells. Dominate Person might be good, even normally niche spells like Speak with Dead or Dream could be really useful. Building/designing Characters is so much fun. Bards are so much fun. Have fun. And tell us how it goes.
Hope some of this was helpful/interesting. Cheers.
Playing a bard now but one bit of info... I am normally a proponent of 16 stat then feat but bard has a big drive for 18 and 20 cha as soon as possible.
Not is it good for spells but also for social.
But the icing on the cake is its also bardic inspire uses. Heck, for glamour bard it's not just uses but people affected.
Mantle of inspire targets 1 person per bonus do...
16 cha is three folks three times. So 9xTHP
18 cha is four folks four times. So 16xTHP
20 cha is five folks five times. So 25xTHP.
That shifts my usual calculations quite a bit.
Inspiring leader is good for sure as are others but I plan to ASI first - which is opposite my usual choices.
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
I might go 20 charisma then and inspiring leader and save for another feat. Or even a booster con if things get tough
Sending is a great spell but I absolutely love Dream. It doubles as a ‘combat’ spell and a two-way communication spell. There are so many good 5th level spells. Scry is another but I’m running out of slots.
His deception will be good - at least 9. I might put expertise but for story reasons I need to expertise performance. He’s a play write so all my material spells will use paper (instead of an instrument) as a focus. He writes quick poems and throws them in the air and they become the spells. It’ll be good for the propaganda aspect of the campaign too. Our group sucks at insight so I might expertise that.
Some good tactics there. I’m not sure my dm will let me use disguise self to look exactly like another person but it’s still a good tactic to be in disguise before pissing someone off. I’d never considered that.
Sending is a great spell but I absolutely love Dream. It doubles as a ‘combat’ spell and a two-way communication spell. There are so many good 5th level spells. Scry is another but I’m running out of slots.
His deception will be good - at least 9. I might put expertise but for story reasons I need to expertise performance. He’s a play write so all my material spells will use paper (instead of an instrument) as a focus. He writes quick poems and throws them in the air and they become the spells. It’ll be good for the propaganda aspect of the campaign too. Our group sucks at insight so I might expertise that.
Some good tactics there. I’m not sure my dm will let me use disguise self to look exactly like another person but it’s still a good tactic to be in disguise before pissing someone off. I’d never considered that.
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