Blank Slate (Everyone Welcome)

[Arkhandus]

Attempting to explain my point was a waste of time. Post deleted.

 

[Darimaus]

.......it kinda really screws up my original idea, and I'm not sure how anything further is supposed to be created if all else besides the first three has to be directly created by the entity of nothing, the entity of fire, and the entity of....I dunno......, intentionally or not. -_-

First off, your going to have to go into a bit more detail than that on how being spawned from the previous gods screws up your concept. As far as I can tell, this falls into the catagory of your origional post, except that there was an actual origion point to your creation, rather than just *poof*, you're there. I have a dislike of that kind of writing, because it seems to simply be the easy way out. I'm trying to involve a concept of story building rather than the concept of it happens because you're a god. If my rendition of your birth doesn't fall into your idea of the God, I'm going to need to know why it doesn't so I can fix the problem.

Just in case you got the wrong idea though, I wasn't implying you're god was an actual child, but merely something that developted from the interaction between the two other Gods that went in its own direction.

And I will point out, the three Gods right now are capable of ceating pretty much anything. After all, we already have fire, water, earth, and wind. The only concepts we lack right now are life, and then the insertion of death. The possibilities are limitless.

 

[Shayuri]

Hmm! It actually fits pretty well, according the wiki:

"Empyrean, from the Medieval Latin empyreus, an adaptation of the Ancient Greek, "in or on the fire (pyr)", properly Empyrean Heaven, is the place in the highest heaven, which in ancient cosmologies was supposed to be occupied by the element of fire (or aether in Aristotle's natural philosophy)."

Perhaps "The Empyrean," or "The Empyreal," are names and/or titles of his? Gods rarely have just one monniker.

 

[Ambrus]

Yeah, I'm aware of its exact meaning since I used it for the joint name of heaven and the head of the pantheon in my last homebrew. I'd simply forgotten about it and when pressed for a name I went with "Nexus" cause it seemed to make sense. Now that you've reminded me of it, it seems like a no-brainer. Behold the might of the Empyrean!

Your goddess to me seems to be the likely offspring of the Empyrean and the Void or a third point to our divine triad. Between the Void and the act of Creation itself, there is endless Posibility. That's what you are; the paradox between existence and non-existance. Your goddess is what guides creation. Make sense?

 

[Arkhandus]

Attempting to explain my point was a waste of time. Post deleted.

 

[Shayuri]

I'm not sure I understand that, man.

There's all kinds of things left to embody. What does it matter how you came to be? Look at it this way...at this point, there's basically two big states of being. You can either exist (through the Emypreal) or not exist (as part of the Void). Even Whisper came to be as a result of those two states brushing each other, giving rise to a narrow boundary...she then is the caretaker of that boundary, but still can't have predated the original two states of being. Thus, she's "younger" than the other two, if only by fematoseconds.

Within that cosmos, there's still lots of room. And bear in mind that to arise from the actions of one or more gods right now doesn't mean that the "parents" literally have to shack up and make a conscious effort to have progeny. At this point in time there's no anthropomorphic principle...the gods are probably pure divine energy or somesuch. New gods spring into being as soon as the principle they embody is created. Thus the Empyreal might have "accidentally" created the God of Gravity and Momentum when he made gravity and used it as a tool to create the planets. You can pretty much use a similar framework to work out anything at this point...any force or concept has its origins somewhere, which in this paradigm means that it was created...most likely by the Empyreal.

In your case, the Dreamer, it sort of makes sense. There can't be a god of thought and dreaming before there's anything that thinks or dreams. So far the cosmology says that the Empyreal was the first being to "awaken" to himself. The Void's sentience was a reaction to his awakening. Whisper finishes last, arising from the interaction between being and nonbeing. It stands to reason that the Empyreal's first 'thought' created the entity called the Dreamer. In these first moments of creation, the big guy can't swing a dead cat without spawning more gods.

Though I admit this line of reasoning does seem to kind of limit what Mr Void can do...while Big, Bright and Sunny is doing his thing, what's the Void up to to promote emptiness and entropy?

 

[Ambrus]

I agree with Shayuri; the field is still wide open. I didn't want to step on anyone's toes by acting as a creator god, I just thought it'd be good to first go about the task of setting up the cosmos for others to then come onto the scene. The earth, the seas and the skies now exist each one begging for a god or goddess to step forth and claim them. One or more Gods of nature now have a tableau upon which to bring forth forests and wild beasts. I'm sorry if you feel this somehow impinges upon your concept.

As for mister Void, I'm dreading the sequel to Creation: The Void Strikes Back.

 

[Arkhandus]

Attempting to explain my point was a waste of time. Post deleted.

 

[Shayuri]

I think I'll just go on the record and say...that's the longest I've ever seen anyone try to stretch a premise. It's so easy to fix too.

Nexus and Void are -exceptions to the rule-. Boom. All better.

So uh yeah. No offense, but I still don't see how Dari ruined it. It seems to me that you just sorta crawled into a box of your own design, and are stubbornly refusing to come out, even though there's nothing keeping you in. I think you'll find that if you just let go of some preconceptions that you're carrying on your back, that the situation is really no different now than before.

Before, the situation was, "Choose a god, who pops in from nothing."

Now it's "Choose a god, who pops in because of two protogods."

Honestly, if Nex and Void had been NPC's, I bet you wouldn't even have said anything.

 

[Darimaus]

My point seems to have been lost, and I won't bother trying to articulate what I mean by it since it's apparently going to continue to be misunderstood. For some reason people are getting entirely the wrong idea of what I mean and what my cognitive disconnect has to do with. Apparently I'm the only one that sees the contradictions and the problem here. -_-

I just hope others who think to join in won't have their ideas or creativity crushed as well by the problems I seem to be the only one seeing here at present. So as not to clutter the thread I'll try and articulate something of what I mean in a spoiler block.

[sblock]It seems I'm the only one who sees that nothing can really exist in that universe because of the contradictions, and neither could my idea as presented. It invalidates all of them except the void, yet it seems no other recognizes the contradiction inherant to this. It has nothing to do with the matter of existence vs. nonexistence. It is the fact that Darimaus has basically said there is no spontaneity in the universe; existence/Nexus could not have begun without it, without the potential of it, yet he says there is none, which makes no sense. Without that which allows Nexus to spring into being and realize existence, there can be nothing else. Nothing comes into being except through the acts of Nexus, yet Nexus itself could not have come into being if it were impossible for anything to exist without its own intervention. Nothing could exist except the void, not even Nexus. If Nexus cannot spontaneously form from the inkling of potential existence, then nothing else can exist. But if Nexus can begin to exist as such, then other things must also be capable of beginning to exist without Nexus' action or interaction. Other facets/elements of reality must be able to form from the nothingness just as Nexus did, rather than only existing by acts of Nexus itself. Whisper forms from the paradox of existence spawning from nonexistence, but how if nothing can exist without Nexus' willing it? How can Nexus exist if it did not actively will itself into existence, unless there is the potential of spontaneity in the nothingness? Without potential, nothing can come into existence, and it is from that potential that Nexus came into being. The same potentiality should give rise to other spontaneous occurances resulting from one impulse or another, one event or another, not suddenly prevented once Nexus comes into being, since obviously Whisper came into being with the same spontaneity resulting from events. If potential, possibility, and spontaneity cannot occur without first Nexus willing them to be, then Nexus itself could not have formed from nothing and neither could Whisper or the Dreamer have formed spontaneously from the interaction of existence with nonexistence. Or something like that. I just can't seem to articulate exactly what I mean, but I don't know that any of it will be realized by anyone else that sees the inconsistencies.[/sblock]

There is one part of the argument you are missing though. Nothing is an entity in and of itself. It has already become its own god. And since it has, even if you spawned from nothing you are spawning from another god. However, I don't like the idea that a whole group of people simply go *pop* into a preconstructed universe, without any care of how or why they should fit into it. After the universe was given boundry by the first PCs, it shall stay that way. You're the contradiction in the matter, as you are trying to supercede a god that already exists, for no apparent reason.