D&D 5E Boots of Striding and Springing.......kinda lame

[Kobold Stew]

If it helps, imagine that you have two runners crossing a 60-foot field, followed by a 10-foot crevice at the far end. One of the runners is a dwarf (speed 25), the other is a human (speed 30), and both have Strength 10. By your logic, the dwarf would be able to jump across the crevice on their second turn by dashing 50 feet in the first round and then moving ten feet before jumping; but the human wouldn't be able to make the jump without slowing down or doubling back, since dashing 60 feet on the first round puts them right at the edge of the crevice with no room to build speed. And that outcome doesn't describe a situation that makes sense - the human should be able to make that jump while continuing to run in a straight line.

I like this example, because it shows the way it should work, assuming there are no interruptions. And for this circumstance, I'll say sure, what you describe makes sense. Implicitly, you've now told us how you understand one of the possible ways that might stop the jump being "immediately after" the run up: for you, the end of turn doesn't matter.

What about (a) making an Attack action?
(b) Making an attack with a bonus action?
(c) Casting a spell?
(d) Making a reaction?
(e) Making a saving throw for half damage from a spell?
(f) Failing a saving throw for that matter?
(g) being attacked?
(h) taking damage?

These aren't idle questions. There's a reason (at least one) we don't throw bricks at athletes going for Olympic long jump records: it would make the task harder, and would hurt their performance.

You write:

It doesn't matter whether that movement occurred on your previous turn, or your current turn, as long as you have your running start before you make the jump.

. Even if that's true, you are still not considering most of what happens in a 5e combat.

As a wise man once said,

There is an internal consistency to the game world and how it operates which must be respected. If someone wants to intentionally misinterpret the clear design of the rules, then that's on them to own up to it.

So the question is, what is the clear design of the clause, "...if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump"? Can ANY of (a) - (h) above interrupt the "immediately before"? I'd say yes, probably for all of them, but certainly for (a) (b) (c) (f) and (h).

EDIT: more edge cases:
i. Does the 10' movement need to be in the direction of the long jump? By the rules, no; you can move 10' and then make a long jump at 90 degrees. By common sense, yes.
ii. Does the player need to announce the intention to long jump in the turn of the run-up? If yes, then is he or she committed to that? Can the player change his or her mind at the start of the next turn? If no, then is the internal logic of the movement "immediately before" being preserved?

 

[CapnZapp]

I tell him he can only jump 30 feet without a 10 ft running start. If he jumps anyway, he falls into the chasm. Is anyone arguing that something else would happen? This doesn't seem like the interesting case, because his speed is irrelevant now.

No, Brutal offers to backtrack 5 ft before starting his running jump.

Still think his Speed is irrelevant?

 

[CapnZapp]

I like this example, because it shows the way it should work, assuming there are no interruptions. And for this circumstance, I'll say sure, what you describe makes sense. Implicitly, you've now told us how you understand one of the possible ways that might stop the jump being "immediately after" the run up: for you, the end of turn doesn't matter.

What about (a) making an attack?
(b) Making an attack with a bonus action?
(c) Casting a spell?
(d) Making a reaction?
(e) Making a saving throw for half damage from a spell?
(f) Failing a saving throw for that matter?
(g) being attacked?
(h) taking damage?

These aren't idle questions. There's a reason (at least one) we don't throw bricks at athletes going for Olympic long jump records: it would make the task harder, and would hurt their performance.

You write:
. Even if that's true, you are still not considering most of what happens in a 5e combat.

As a wise man once said,

So the question is, what is the clear design of the clause, "...if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump"? Can ANY of (a) - (h) above interrupt the "immediately before"? I'd say yes, probably for all of them, but certainly for (a) (b) (c) (f) and (h).

This is a lot of text that STILL evades the core issue.

On one hand turn breaks are completely unnatural and can ruin immersion...

...on the other hand you and I are convinced that is exactly how 5E works, DESPITE no actual rule, sage advice or tweet to irrefutably say it is so.

THAT is the issue.

The Sage has not at all cleared or adressed the issue. It's an completely unsaid truth that when you run out of movement for your turn, if you're not on solid ground, you fall.

 

[Kobold Stew]

This is a lot of text that STILL evades the core issue.

We have different issues!

But you're right, and my sense is that you and I see very similar issues with the jumping rules. I'm not so concerned with Sage responses myself.

 

[jaelis]

No, Brutal offers to backtrack 5 ft before starting his running jump.

Still think his Speed is irrelevant?

No, but I didn't want to change the setup you gave. If this is his plan, then I suggest he dashes this turn for a total speed of 60 ft. He walks 15 ft total, and jumps 30 ft, landing on the other side with 15 ft of move available.

If he can't or won't dash, then he walks 15 ft and then jumps his maximum possible distance of 15 ft, "landing" in the middle of the chasm and subsequently falling.

 

[Caliban]

No, but I didn't want to change the setup you gave. If this is his plan, then I suggest he dashes this turn for a total speed of 60 ft. He walks 15 ft total, and jumps 30 ft, landing on the other side with 15 ft of move available.

If he can't or won't dash, then he walks 15 ft and then jumps his maximum possible distance of 15 ft, "landing" in the middle of the chasm and subsequently falling.

While the boots have a limitation (can't jump farther than your remaining movement), your jump distance isn't limited that way if you increase your jump distance via other methods (jump spell, monk ki, etc).

We've had a similar situation come one in our game (I wasn't the DM).

In our case, the PC had a speed of 30', but with the Jump spell he could jump 48' and jumped across a 20' chasm, attacking a flying creature partway through his jump, and landing on the other side. On one of his turns he had to move 20' before making his jump, so he jumped 10', ended his turn, and on his next turn was forced to use 20' of movement to finish the jump.

It is kind of weird that only the boots seem to have that specific limitation.

 

[jaelis]

While the boots have a limitation (can't jump farther than your remaining movement), your jump distance isn't limited that way if you increase your jump distance via other methods (jump spell, monk ki, etc).

The jump spell (and monk ability) still references the jump rules, which limits your total movement based on your speed. Which is what JC confirms in twitter. I think the text in the boots is just a reminder of the general rule.

 

[Caliban]

The jump spell (and monk ability) still references the jump rules, which limits your total movement based on your speed. Which is what JC confirms in twitter. I think the text in the boots is just a reminder of the general rule.

No it doesn't. Each foot jumped costs a foot of speed, but nothing says your jump can't continue into your next turn if you run out of speed this turn.

 

[jaelis]

No it doesn't. Each foot jumped costs a foot of speed, but nothing says your jump can't continue into your next turn if you run out of speed this turn.

Perhaps but it just seems very hard to me to square that up with what, for instance, JC says here

Q: What happens when Jump gives a jump distance greater than walking speed?
A: Your jump is limited by how far you can move; each foot jumped uses a foot of movement (PH, 182).
Q: So casting Jump on a character with a 20 STR and a move of 30’ is effectively pointless?
A: 20 Strength running long jump: up to 20 ft. With jump spell: up to 60 ft. with a speed of 30 ft. and Dash.

He says pretty explicitly that if you want to get the full 60 ft from the jump spell, you need to use 60 ft of movement in that round. I guess you could say he's being deliberately obtuse by telling you one way and not bringing up another simpler method (by splitting the move over two rounds) but what reason would he have to do that? Maybe this is his convoluted way of implying "Here's how I play it, but the rules themselves are ambiguous." Which is fine with me, I guess my point is just that we know how JC plays it.

So just to ask, at your table my optimized jumping character might try to end every turn mid-jump, making him too high off the ground to be targeted by melee attacks. I guess perhaps you wouldn't like that, what would be your response?

 

[Satyrn]

No it doesn't. Each foot jumped costs a foot of speed, but nothing says your jump can't continue into your next turn if you run out of speed this turn.

I'm now picturing a scenario where a character in these boots wants to leap a 10 foot gap, but he's far enough from it that when he reaches the gap and begins his leap, he's only got 5 feet of speed left. That would make for a hilarious story for the players to tell afterwards:

Okay, so I was playing this character with magic boots that let him leap like a kangaroo. I was leaping over ogres, crossing wide rivers in a single bound. But then one day, I'm leaping a crack in the floor as I'm charging a balrog. I run to the gap, jump, and get maybe 5 feet across the hole and I . . . I just fall like the boots have turned to concrete, like they're the One Ring abandoning Gollum. So I fall down that bottomless pit in Khazad-dum, screaming "my precioussssss" all the way down.