Building Eberron (Using non-Eberron books)

Ferrix

Explorer
Rystil Arden said:
This is for the proposals' benefits as much as anything else. I know from Living ENWorld that judges are *much* more likely to vote on short proposals than ones with lots of stuff in them (and LEW has many more potential judges to vote on things than we do!). Proposal threads expect to have lively discussion in them as well (like the new spells thread). Besides, there's no need for hundreds of proposals unless there's someone who randomly proposes everything--we don't need to kitchen sink this: propose what is useful and we'll discuss it and add it on. That way, also, it is much much less likely that we will have to tell someone 'No' and take something away because we missed it.

I just don't see the problem with the classes being proposed in a single thread, as there aren't that many and a lot of discussion has already been had. For spells or feats, I guess individual threads might work, I just see it as easier as a player to get things voted in en masse if I wanted to use multiple things from a single book rather than making a single thread for each thing I was interested in potentially using.
 

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Rystil Arden

First Post
Ferrix said:
I just don't see the problem with the classes being proposed in a single thread, as there aren't that many and a lot of discussion has already been had. For spells or feats, I guess individual threads might work, I just see it as easier as a player to get things voted in en masse if I wanted to use multiple things from a single book rather than making a single thread for each thing I was interested in potentially using.
It's mostly because you're actually better off that way if you need them voted in with due speed. I'll give you an example--let's say you really wanted my character to have those clothes that change styles from S:CoT. If you had proposed them separately, they would have already been voted in (At least by me). If you had proposed them with 1 or 2 other things, I also probably would have voted them in. But by just proposing the whole book, which I'm not ready to vote YES to in its entirity, you don't get the clothes yet. Can you see what I'm saying? I've seen it happen before on LEW. To give an example, the Knight generally generates discussion, I have found, whereas Beguiler and Duskblade are universally liked by most everyone, so proposing all the PHII classes together might slow down the latter two. I'm not saying you can't propose them all together (you can choose to propose "All WotC material ever published" if you want), I'm just trying to give a suggestion to help :)
 

Ferrix

Explorer
Rystil Arden said:
It's mostly because you're actually better off that way if you need them voted in with due speed. I'll give you an example--let's say you really wanted my character to have those clothes that change styles from S:CoT. If you had proposed them separately, they would have already been voted in (At least by me). If you had proposed them with 1 or 2 other things, I also probably would have voted them in. But by just proposing the whole book, which I'm not ready to vote YES to in its entirity, you don't get the clothes yet. Can you see what I'm saying? I've seen it happen before on LEW. To give an example, the Knight generally generates discussion, I have found, whereas Beguiler and Duskblade are universally liked by most everyone, so proposing all the PHII classes together might slow down the latter two. I'm not saying you can't propose them all together (you can choose to propose "All WotC material ever published" if you want), I'm just trying to give a suggestion to help :)

Ah... well, I hadn't considered that each thread be approved en masse. Just that each thread contain the proposals in larger groups than one. Classes being an easy example.

Thus those items which are generally approved of in the thread without much discussion can get approved, while leaving some of the others to be discussed and either approved or denied later.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Ferrix said:
Ah... well, I hadn't considered that each thread be approved en masse. Just that each thread contain the proposals in larger groups than one. Classes being an easy example.

Thus those items which are generally approved of in the thread without much discussion can get approved, while leaving some of the others to be discussed and either approved or denied later.
That's the theory. In practise, I've seen that the threads with lengthy proposals are less likely to be read by the judges quickly because they want to wait until they have enough free time to read through the whole proposal (I've seen LEW proposals that get through with lightning speed that are very short, and longer ones are sometimes left alone for quite a well, though this isn't the rule, of course). The ones that are most likely to have a quick piecemeal approval are thus the ones with only a few pieces, as I mentioned. It's like my professor always said--only ever make a single point per e-mail or else they'll focus on the easiest point to answer and not answer the one you wanted, or perhaps answer neither. Another corollary of this is that the fewer the pieces, the more likely you are to have yours focused on--if we get into a big discussion on Wu Jen, it would slow down the approval of other classes in that thread (because we wouldn't have time to discuss them yet), whereas in their own thread they might be approved much faster.

Honestly, a thread proposing all the classes is better than none at all for speed, so do write something up, but if you want to get your Gnome Archivist approved with the best possible speed, I'd do a HoH class thread with only Archivist and Dread Necromancer (or if you are really crafty, put Archivist alone and propose it on the grounds that it is available for free, and send a link ;))
 

Ferrix

Explorer
I'm still undecided about my poor gnomish cryptologist. I want him to have forgery, but neither the archivist nor the wizard has it as a class skill. *sniff sniff* Poor beguiler has to wait...
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Ferrix said:
I'm still undecided about my poor gnomish cryptologist. I want him to have forgery, but neither the archivist nor the wizard has it as a class skill. *sniff sniff* Poor beguiler has to wait...
Ah, yeah--you'd need the Beguiler for that. Unless you wanted to make a Master Cryptologist feat that gives you +1 to Forgery and Decipher Script and Forgery as a class skill or something.
 

Ferrix

Explorer
Rystil Arden said:
Ah, yeah--you'd need the Beguiler for that. Unless you wanted to make a Master Cryptologist feat that gives you +1 to Forgery and Decipher Script and Forgery as a class skill or something.

Perhaps...
 

Velmont

First Post
Ferrix said:
I'm still undecided about my poor gnomish cryptologist. I want him to have forgery, but neither the archivist nor the wizard has it as a class skill. *sniff sniff* Poor beguiler has to wait...

You can always make him a Rogue... but if you want him to be some kind of magician, it is another thing.
 

Ferrix

Explorer
Velmont said:
You can always make him a Rogue... but if you want him to be some kind of magician, it is another thing.

Yeah... a wizard type gains quickly over the rogue in the knowledge department as well.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Ferrix said:
Yeah... a wizard type gains quickly over the rogue in the knowledge department as well.
Plus the Archivist actually gets some great uses out of those knowledge skills. Heck, with Draconic Archivist, you can Dark Knowledge all those damn Warforged :lol:
 

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