[C&C] Why the edition wars?

[GMSkarka]

...it might have something to do with the fact that almost all of the C&C threads seem to originate with one person.....

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'm not threatened by C&C at all. Heck, I plan to pick it up when I've got some spare cash. MY problem is the people who end up saying you can do all these things with C&C and why you can't do with 3e...when I'm doing all of those things with 3e already. The biggest one being that my games are fast and aren't bogged down by rules in combat. It keeps moving, to the disbelief of some C&C fans, it seems.

One day, I want to get all of you guys that don't believe quick, simple combat can be done with 3e into my game.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

You know the saying about opinions and a#$ holes, everyone's got one.

I thought the saying was about opinions and new RPG rulesets-- everyone's got one.

As for C&C, until now I've just ignored every post about it. It falls somewhere just above, "Never heard of it," for me.


Wulf

 

[Mythmere1]

...it might have something to do with the fact that almost all of the C&C threads seem to originate with one person.....

I can't help myself. But it's not just me, to be fair. Only a lot me. And if you scroll down, you can see how well I've restrained myself. Only 3 of the 6 C&C posts on page one were started by me.

 

[bolie]

Why are the 3.x players so threatened by C&C? Here I'm not talking about people who actually compare the rules and say, "well, because of x, y, and z I think that's not the right game for me," I'm talking about people who swing in and announce that they haven't read the C&C rules and don't plan to, but vehemently state that C&C must suck -- apparently on the grounds that since 3.x is so perfect, anything else must be terrible...
[snippage]
Why does it seem to upset the 3.x players so badly? Is it that the idea of another FRPG is somehow insulting to them? I've never seen GURPS attacked so fiercely, or Hackmaster, and these are both FRPGs, so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

I feel threatened by C&C because you make me play it!

But seriously, I try very hard to be objective about my criticisms and give what I like about it as well as what I don't like about it.

I have seen gaming system flamewars involving GURPS and other systems on the old Pyramid message boards, so I don't think this is just a 3e thing...

Bolie IV

 

[Mythmere1]

And to be fair, I haven't seen any flamewars, which is why it's curious. It's acrimonious, but it's been pretty gentlemanly.

 

[blizack]

I think that 3rd Edition D&D fans' "threatened" posture arises from the perception that C&C fans are calling their game inferior (and to be fair, some of them basically are saying that).

 

[Karl Green]

?? I must not be reading enough about C&C... personally I am just not that interested in it so I don't talk about it...

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I pretty much agree with MoogleEmpMog. I don't hate it, but I must admit I feel kind of disappointed. It was a great opportunity, but the product doesn't live up to the hype. It would (imo) be a lot easier to just ignore certain aspects of D20 that you felt were too complicated than deal with a new system that is kind of a hodge-podge.

And Mythmere1, perhaps some of the antagonism comes from people such as yourself accusing dissenters of not having read the rules or not understanding them. Some of us are quite capable of reading the rules, understanding them, and still not liking the system.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Without addressing "lame," "unfair," "god-awful," etc., I'm curious as to whether you've read the C&C rules to form these strongly voiced opinions or whether they're based on something else. Your post is a fairly good example of what I'm talking about, and I don't think you've read the rules because although your point (e) is valid, it's not the CKG but M&T that's needed. That error indicates that you haven't read the book and that you're doing exactly what I'm talking about...

M is needed. T will just bring more D&D mistakes into the game.

I have not yet had a chance to sit down and read C&C, but I've glanced through it at the FLGS (where it is selling quite nicely from its prominent display, I might add), had several questions answered on these boards, and read multiple reviews.

I disagree that the CKG is not needed. What I've seen in the C&C PHB is not a complete game, even apart from the monsters. I find it very hard to believe that a new GM (er... CK) without a working knowledge of Dungeons and Dragons could run Castles and Crusades as it currently exists. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

Now, the D&D 3.x PHB isn't a complete game, either - but I wager you could run a basic game using just that. The SilCore core book IS a complete game. Same with the GURPS and Storyteller core rules. For that matter, many OGL games (like Conan, OGL Steampunk/Cybernet/Ancients/etc.) and d20 Modern are true complete games.