Catwoman Movie (threads merged)

[Green Knight]

Eh, I just don't like Halle Berry.

Between the Flash and this Catwoman movie, I feel a little sick to the stomach.

No kidding. Everytime I think about that new Flash tv show, an image of my latest visit to the toilet pops into my mind. NOT a good association.

 

[Ranger REG]

Halle Berry is BI-RACIAL. Her mother is as white as the driven snow.
Maybe it doesnt bother so much now, eh?

Actually, in certains states in the mainland US, it does ... still. Not so in Hawaii. We just talk stink behind Haoles' back.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The cats name in the cartoon was Isis.



Quick question. How would you like it if they were to make a Green Lantern movie and cast the role of John Stewart as a white guy? I know I wouldn't like it at all. It cuts both ways. More than likely, the fanboy who's aghast at the thought of Halle Berry playing Catwoman would also be aghast at the thought of a white guy playing John Stewart, Blade, Bishop, etc. It isn't about race, but about wanting the closest representation of the comics character translated to film, which is a subject that goes far beyond race (Like the bitching about Spider-Mans webshooters in the movie being organic). For instance, George Clooney is white, as is Batman, but he does NOT look like Batman, which made me and many other fans aghast at the thought of his casting. Recently, I heard that George Clooney could potentially play Reed Richards in a Fantastic Four movie (Turned out to not be true, thank God). Once again, I was aghast. Why? Because George Clooney looks NOTHING like Reed Richards. For most fans, it has nothing to do with race and EVERYTHING to seeing the onscreen character staying as true to the character they've read about for years as possible (Also, incidentally, why I was all for Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin. I can't think of ANY other actor who could replicate the Kingpin's physique).

I see your point.

However...

If you know anythin about the project you know that the character in the movie already IS NOT THE CATWOMAN that we know. Her name is not Selena Kyle, there is no Batman, there is no Gotham city. I dont think that she's even a burgular/thief in the movie. So with all of this decidely major things already changed and the fact that this is nowhere even close to resembling the character that we know, why is her race even an issue? I didnt bring up her race, someone else did. They were obviously concerned about a black (or bi-racial) actress in the role of what should have gone to a white actress. That is what I'm addressing as well.

And lets get another thing straight. I'm not calling anyone here a racist. If I felt that way I'd just come out and say it. What does bother me is the concern about the race of a character which is so obviously removed from the orignial template of the character.

I'd be just as bothered about a black batman or a white black panther but this?

 

[Ranger REG]

Not to sidetrack things here, but if there should be a Nick Fury movie, they should take their cue from the Ultimate line, and make him African-American.

(IOW, please! No David Hasselfrickenhoff!!!)

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I see your point.

However...

If you know anythin about the project you know that the character in the movie already IS NOT THE CATWOMAN that we know. Her name is not Selena Kyle, there is no Batman, there is no Gotham city. I dont think that she's even a burgular/thief in the movie. So with all of this decidely major things already changed and the fact that this is nowhere even close to resembling the character that we know, why is her race even an issue? I didnt bring up her race, someone else did. They were obviously concerned about a black (or bi-racial) actress in the role of what should have gone to a white actress. That is what I'm addressing as well.

Oh didn't know of all the major changes... Nope her race doesn't bug me; it could be George Clooney as far as I care. Man this movie is complete junk, it can't even be semi-original so in my mind this movie doesn't exists anymore...

I was curious to see Berry's name attached to another comic book movies cause didn't she have issues with doing the second X-men movie after she turned "serious actor" with her Oscar award? Guess all of the changes explain that.

 

[Vocenoctum]

With the DD movie, more people were concerned with the changes to Bullseye than Kingpin, I think. Although, even Duncan remarked, when offered the role, "How did a black guy become the head of the Italian mob?", so there is a bit of a logic reason.

I like Duncan, thought he acted good. I still think an Italian looking fellow would have been better. I also think it should have had some computer to it, to make the Kingpin BIGGER than life. Maybe not the whole way to his Comic Size, but he should have been huge.

The fights in DD felt too superheroey, which is fine for XMen (where I actually felt they were underpowered) but for DD it should have been lower power.

Catwoman Berry is fine with me. I don't especially like her as an actress, but no matter who they cast, it wouldn't have drawn me to see the movie.

For that matter, I don't like the choice for Galadriel, because I don't really think Blanchet is very good looking... but that's just me.

And, for the record, it's not about Race in most of these discussions. It's about Appearance. It's making the Movie Character match the Comic Character.

 

[Villano]

I see your point.

However...

If you know anythin about the project you know that the character in the movie already IS NOT THE CATWOMAN that we know. Her name is not Selena Kyle, there is no Batman, there is no Gotham city. I dont think that she's even a burgular/thief in the movie. So with all of this decidely major things already changed and the fact that this is nowhere even close to resembling the character that we know, why is her race even an issue? I didnt bring up her race, someone else did. They were obviously concerned about a black (or bi-racial) actress in the role of what should have gone to a white actress. That is what I'm addressing as well.

I think the "black" issue arose only as an aside. People were chiming in with "She isn't like this" and "She isn't like that". Someone just mentioned race as another change on the very, very, long, why even call her "Catwoman", oh God this movie is going to be so bad, list.

But, let's look at things a bit differently. If you changed the race of Jimmy Olsen in the new Superman movie, would it be wrong to object? You might say, "So what if he's now black?" However, what if we exchange race for sexuality. Instead of black, the new Jimmy Olsen is gay.

Now, if someone objects to that, would it be wrong?

Or if Luke Cage went from being black to latino? Honestly, you could do the same stories, so why sould it matter?

Sometimes Hollywood is just plain weird and changes things just for the sake of changing them. I've seen the movie Congo, but never read the book. From what I understand, Ernie Hudson's big game hunter was originally white. The change didn't bother me.

However, I'm left scratching my head why they would hire an Englishman, Tim Curry, and then cast him as a Romanian instead of doing the obvious.

It's kind of like buying a horse to put in a western, and then having it play a cow.

Another change which is going to raise eyebrows when the movie is released is the casting of the Rock as Buford Pusser in the remake of Walking Tall. The problem is that the Rock is half Samoan and half black, and the real life Pusser was white.

Now your not only changing the race of a real person, but you're stuck with the issues that go hand in hand with being of black heritage in 60's Tennessee.

Of course, they'll most likely get around this by moving the story to the present, which will lead us to ask how much "true" is left in this true story.

And lets get another thing straight. I'm not calling anyone here a racist. If I felt that way I'd just come out and say it. What does bother me is the concern about the race of a character which is so obviously removed from the orignial template of the character.

I think any implication of racism is a dangerous thing. How does one defend himself from such accusations? How do you prove what you think?

Years ago, the black woman on The Practice (don't watch the show so I don't know her name) was complaining about not getting a role. She called the producers racist.

So, what film was she denied because of her race? I'm not certain which one, but it was either The Crucible or The Scarlet Letter.

Now, the producers were so scared of being labelled "racists", that they went through this whole thing about her not being good enough for the part, the woman they cast was a better actress, etc, etc. They were too scared to simply say, "Yes, she didn't get the part because she's black. We're doing a historical drama about puritans and there weren't any black puritans. If we cast a black woman, it would destroy the 'historical' part of 'historical drama'."

I'm sure Morgan Freeman would turn in one hell of a performance as Abe Lincoln, but he shouldn't be cast as him.

Actually, this whole thing reminds me of The One-Legged Tarzan Sketch I once saw on tv. It was part of a filmed, British stage performance. There were a whole bunch of sketches, and this was but one.

Anyway, Dudley Moore played a one-legged actor who was trying out for the role of Tarzan. The producer was trying to delicately tell him he didn't get the part without coming out and saying that it's because he has one leg.

 

[JoeBlank]

If you know anythin about the project you know that the character in the movie already IS NOT THE CATWOMAN that we know. Her name is not Selena Kyle, there is no Batman, there is no Gotham city. I dont think that she's even a burgular/thief in the movie.

Excellent point. Our debate is interesting, but moot: This movie ain't about the Catwoman we know. So much has changed it can hardly be called change, this is just another character who happens to be called Catwoman.

 

[Mercule]

But, let's look at things a bit differently. If you changed the race of Jimmy Olsen in the new Superman movie, would it be wrong to object? You might say, "So what if he's now black?" However, what if we exchange race for sexuality. Instead of black, the new Jimmy Olsen is gay.

Most of the time, I couldn't care less about what race the actor playing the part is. MCD as Kingpin didn't bother me at all. Of course, I never figured that the Kingpin was definitely Italian. It always seemed to me that his organization was as exagerated as everything else in comics. It included all sorts of organized crime under its umbrella. Mafia, Tongs, gangbangers, Colombian cartels, the works. Thus, he could have been a former Sumo wrestler for all I cared. MCD is a great Kingpin, IMO.

As far as Jimmy Olsen being gay, I'm not a big DC fan, but my impression has always been that Jimmy was a teen (teen sex having little place in a comic book flick, IMO) and couldn't score if the field was expanded to include livestock, rodents, and various alien entities. Given that, I have a hard time coming up with a good reason to mention his sexuality in any way, shape or form. Although I can come up with a whole host of bad reasons that would detract from the movie at least a bit. And _that_ is why I'd oppose making him gay.

 

[Henry]

A random assortment of comments, seasoned just so for your enjoyment:

--Michael Clark Duncan: Excellent performance as the Kingpin. However, the character known as Wilson Grant Fisk was altered to fit the film. I didn't like it, but his performance drowned my annoyance.

-- The comic-book Kingpin was not Italian to my knowledge; he was as white and fat and rich and powerful as they come, a caricature come to life. He gained his position through money and shrewd skills. He was portrayed as a wealthy man who wanted into the crime syndicate, and got in through money and talent.

--My problems with Halle Berry as ANYTHING, not just super-heroes, is that I don't believe she's a good actress; I've seen her work in Monster's Ball, and that being responsible for her Oscar STILL baffles me. She cannot play anything other than herself. When the part comes with no prior history, there's no problem with it, but then you are portraying an established character, either that character had better be close to the way you really are, or you'd better be a good character actor. I'm glad she's successful, but this trait of sticking her in as many movies as possible like she's Mom's Prize-Winning Chili Sauce That Goes With All Dishes just baffles me - she's not all that, to me.

Heck, I think Queen Latifah is a better actress, though what that says about my ability to pick acting skill I'll let someone else judge.

--That said, Halle Berry was DEAD-ON in the look for a young Ororo (Storm). However, every time she spoke it grated my suspension of Disbelief. In the first X-men movie, she tried the "African Goddess" approach, and she couldn't pull it off; in the Second X-men movie she was more herself, which while it didn't fit Storm, at least didn't sound so affected and less grating.