D&D 5E Contagion and Boss Fights

[Warmaster Horus]

That's a sensible rule that Sage Advice has adopted.

On the other hand, it completely invalidates the spell as a viable combat option.

Maybe it's not meant to be a combat spell? It's only 5th level and to have the effect of stunning a creature for 3 rounds without a save (or, well, saves in progress) is more powerful than a 9th level spell.

 

[Ancalagon]

Absolutely.

All that the Sage suggestion does is turn it into a plot/story spell no player will ever use for combat.

(Or possibly worse, suggesting the spell should be snuck upon the BBEG fifteen seconds in advance of the actual fight, only encouraging sneaking and hiding that makes gameplay drag and take forever - and turning combat from something everybody gets to be part of into something the Druid fixes on his lonesome, which is boring for everybody else)

Why the thread necromancy? Was it one save per year?

 

[CapnZapp]

Why the thread necromancy?

Is there something wrong?

It's the first time a player has used the spell, and something clearly needs to change (from the PHB).

This something is not the Sage Advice, which is functionally equivalent to burying the spell among all the other will-never-be-used spells...

Hence this discussion - and the other thread! Where I just now posted my own conclusion

 

[Ancalagon]

Is there something wrong?

It's the first time a player has used the spell, and something clearly needs to change (from the PHB).

This something is not the Sage Advice, which is functionally equivalent to burying the spell among all the other will-never-be-used spells...

Hence this discussion - and the other thread! Where I just now posted my own conclusion

Context helps

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Wait, what?

Undead aren't immune to disease in 5th edition? What the hell?!
Is this correct?

Except for contagion, most diseases do poison damage, and many (if not all) undead are immune to poison damage. Thus, in a practical sense, undead are immune to disease (except for certain magical ones).

 

[Emmanuel Casavant]

I’d say the first options.

 

[Dausuul]

Maybe it's not meant to be a combat spell? It's only 5th level and to have the effect of stunning a creature for 3 rounds without a save (or, well, saves in progress) is more powerful than a 9th level spell.

If it's not meant to be a combat spell, though, what's it good for? In theory, you could target a powerful enemy and thus soften them up for a future combat; but since the spell has a touch range, it's very hard to pull that off without getting smote.

That's the problem with contagion. As written, it's stupidly overpowered. With the Sage Advice ruling, it's almost useless. A useless spell can simply be ignored, while an overpowered one can wreck games, so the Sage Advice solution is an improvement, but not a great one. That was why I proposed a total rewrite in the other thread, changing contagion into a "spread plague among your enemies" spell*.

[SIZE=-2]*Also, I feel like if a spell is gonna be named contagion, shouldn't it be... you know... contagious?[/SIZE]

 

[Warmaster Horus]

If it's not meant to be a combat spell, though, what's it good for? In theory, you could target a powerful enemy and thus soften them up for a future combat; but since the spell has a touch range, it's very hard to pull that off without getting smote.

That's the problem with contagion. As written, it's stupidly overpowered. With the Sage Advice ruling, it's almost useless. A useless spell can simply be ignored, while an overpowered one can wreck games, so the Sage Advice solution is an improvement, but not a great one. That was why I proposed a total rewrite in the other thread, changing contagion into a "spread plague among your enemies" spell*.

[SIZE=-2]*Also, I feel like if a spell is gonna be named contagion, shouldn't it be... you know... contagious?[/SIZE]

It wouldn't be the first useless spell in the PHB, at least from a combat perspective. It might be a good one for coercion, though. Nothing like a little Slimy Doom on your boyfriend to get you motivated to pay off the evil wizard, after all.

 

[Dausuul]

It wouldn't be the first useless spell in the PHB, at least from a combat perspective. It might be a good one for coercion, though. Nothing like a little Slimy Doom on your boyfriend to get you motivated to pay off the evil wizard, after all.

Except none of the diseases is fatal and the maximum duration is seven days. So, at best, it's a bluff where you hope the victim doesn't know how the spell works. And if you're going to run a bluff, why not use a low-level illusion spell and save your high-end spell slots?

Contagion with the Sage Advice ruling isn't just near-useless from a combat perspective. It's near-useless, period. It was clearly designed as a combat spell, but it either doesn't do its job (per Sage Advice) or does it way, way too well (per the PHB).

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Except none of the diseases is fatal and the maximum duration is seven days. So, at best, it's a bluff where you hope the victim doesn't know how the spell works. And if you're going to run a bluff, why not use a low-level illusion spell and save your high-end spell slots?

Contagion with the Sage Advice ruling isn't just near-useless from a combat perspective. It's near-useless, period. It was clearly designed as a combat spell, but it either doesn't do its job (per Sage Advice) or does it way, way too well (per the PHB).

Again, a niche thing. As written it has no place as a combat spell if the effects come in immediately as it is too powerful, and it's not powerful enough if the effects take at least 3 rounds to come into play. The only thing it has going for it is as a punishment, coercion or even a form of imprisonment - Slimy Doom every seven days and that guy's going nowhere while enduring a persisting agony. No fun.