Couple of questions about a Saugiin (and other 2-handed reach weapons)

[sullivan]

One of them already came up in this thread: ( http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=124594 ); When wielding a two-handed weapon that has 10' reach while your hands are in a state that lets you use them as weapons (for Monks, Improved Unarmed, many creatures, Dragon Disciples PrC feature, the hand deformation feat from Vile Darkness, various spells such as Stone Fist, etc.) do you threaten at 5' as well? Yes, no, or sometimes for situations like Monks where it isn't just your hands that do the damage?

Second can you make an AoO with a Sugliin without the Exotic Weapon (Sugliin) Feat? For those not familiar this is an odd exotic weapon from Frostburn (actually all the weapons there are a bit odd, but this one moreso) that you can use as a martial weapon without a -4 penality, but attacking with it is suppose to take a full attack. I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but just double confirming that noone here can raise a [defendable ] RAW reason why not.

 

[Crothian]

Yes, you can make AoO with reach weapons (or any weapon) you are not proficient with. THe only thing proficeint does is negate a -4 penalty.

First question, ya I think you would.

 

[sullivan]

Yes, you can make AoO with reach weapons (or any weapon) you are not proficient with. THe only thing proficeint does is negate a -4 penalty.

The point is that normally attacking with it without the Exotic Weapon (Sugliin) requires a Full Attack (but DOESN'T give you a -4 penalty). You can't, for example, move more than 5' and then attack using a Standard Action. It's part of the quirkiness of the weapon, I don't know of any other WotC printed 3.x melee weapon that works like that.

 

[Crothian]

The point is that normally attacking with it requires a Full Attack. You can't, for example, move more than 5' and then attack using a Standard Action. It's part of the quirkiness of the weapon, I don't know of any other WotC printed 3.x melee weapon that works like that.

Well, that's just wierd. I don't have the book so I don't know what to tell you. I'd suggest getting the DM drunk then ask him real nicely to let you take the AoO......

 

[sullivan]

BTW I editted my second post you quoted so it's a bit clearer.

I'd suggest getting the DM drunk then ask him real nicely to let you take the AoO......

E-e-excellent idea. *taps fingers together*

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

The point is that normally attacking with it without the Exotic Weapon (Sugliin) requires a Full Attack (but DOESN'T give you a -4 penalty). You can't, for example, move more than 5' and then attack using a Standard Action. It's part of the quirkiness of the weapon, I don't know of any other WotC printed 3.x melee weapon that works like that.

IIRC, wielding the sugliin properly requires the EWP, and being able to make full attacks requires the Sugliin Mastery feat.

 

[sullivan]

IIRC, wielding the sugliin properly requires the EWP, and being able to make full attacks requires the Sugliin Mastery feat.

Oh ya....sort of, another oddity within an oddity. You don't get a -4 To Hit as long as you have Martial Weapons. The feat i should have mentioned is called Sugliin Mastery that drops an attack from full-round action to normal attacks. The Exotic Weapon Proficency (Sugliin) is firstly a prereq. for Sugliin Mastery, and also takes away the possibility of breaking the weapon when you do abnormally high damage (above the max. you could roll for the weapon, which is 2d8 for M ). That is unlike the other primative weapons in Frostburn that each have their "special qualities" activated by EWP along with removing the chance for breaking the weapon.


Still, proper naming of the feat aside....

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Note, at least, that monks and anyone with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat don't even need their hands to attack.

Unarmed strikes can comprise such things as knees to the groin, headbuts, boots to the head, etc.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm unfamiliar with Frostburn so I'll leave that question to others with the relevent knowledge. Regarding your first question:

One of them already came up in this thread: ( http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=124594 ); When wielding a two-handed weapon that has 10' reach while your hands are in a state that lets you use them as weapons (for Monks, Improved Unarmed, many creatures, Dragon Disciples PrC feature, the hand deformation feat from Vile Darkness, various spells such as Stone Fist, etc.) do you threaten at 5' as well? Yes, no, or sometimes for situations like Monks where it isn't just your hands that do the damage?

If you can make an attack at 5' with any kind of weapon that doesn't require your hands, I'd allow it. i.e. Unarmed Strike, as Patryn points out, doesn't actually mean only a punch--for a monk or anyone else. Likewise armor spikes would qualify, since you could throw a spiked knee into someone at 5'.

If your 5' weapon requires your hands, then no. Your hands are occupied. It's the same as someone wielding a greatsword or TWF, but wearing a buckler. You have to choose what your arms are doing, you don't get to make several different uses of your hands/arms at the same time (without feats, at least. )