D&D 5E CR 13 dragon beaten by level 7 party observations

[Psikerlord#]

Yeah I think with an ambush and good potions, the party should have won. I am a bit surprised not a single PC went down though.

 

[Henrix]

Is it time for B.A.D.D. again?

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

This anecdote demonstrates the dangers (and potential awesomeness) of giving out powerful consumable items. Don't even get me started on the time I let a mid-level character enter the campaign with a scroll of shapechange...

 

[Rhenny]

Good test and observations, OP.

The results of your test explain why Dragons don't leave their lair's much to harry towns and such. Even they have to protect themselves. In 5e, it seems like most dragons become skirmish type fighters. They probably plan their objectives carefully. Swoop into the encounter, reek havoc, take what they want and then fly away before taking too much damage.

I'm pretty sure this is the design that WoTC intended.

If the DM wants a more dangerous dragon, I think it is up to the DM to make individual dragons more challenging by adding spellcasting or even adding special maneuvers or feats that make the dragon unique.

Also, I think the rough estimate of power uses party of 4 vs. CR, but even with 5, 10,000 xp is still rated as deadly. I think the xp guidelines are a little too easy. (Also, I think this is purposeful so that newer DMs and players don't over kill PCs.).

 

[Authweight]

What I've found is that battles against highly leveled foes can be very swingy. Their damage is enough that a solid hit will easily drop many PCs, but the PCs often have the ability to nova huge damage when they need to. That means that the key to beating a tough enemy is getting the drop on them and hitting them with everything you have before they start tearing you apart.

You played it pretty much perfectly, it sounds like a good fight.

 

[DaveDash]

I've ran heaps of lair fights against Dragons using Level 17 and Level 20 parties.
If you have action surging Fighters in your group they just rip Dragons to shreds.
Never let them get into melee. Not exactly what you'd picture as a heroic Dragon fight but there you go.
Otherwise if youre after a heroic Dragon fight, they should always be the spell caster variant and have defensive buffs running.

 

[Celtavian]

I don't see this as a problem. It stands to reason that if lower CR creatures are still a threat to higher level characters, then lower level characters should still be a threat to higher CR creatures. It seems to be a 5E feature that allows more flexible story telling and encounter design.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I run five 13th level characters against one of those and it was trounced. In fact, the group of frost giants I threw at the party to warm up for the boss encounter ended up being much harder, just to reiterate the potential of multiple opponents of low CR vs one opponent of same CR.

Regarding dragon flight, I must say that I use flying dragons more as a plot element then as a real fight. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think what people usually describe as viable tactics for flying dragons in an open field make for exciting fights. I keep thinking about poor swordsman waiting on the ground while archers and wizards try to do something useful and members of the group are snatched one by one.

 

[DaveDash]

I run five 13th level characters against one of those and it was trounced. In fact, the group of frost giants I threw at the party to warm up for the boss encounter ended up being much harder, just to reiterate the potential of multiple opponents of low CR vs one opponent of same CR.

Regarding dragon flight, I must say that I use flying dragons more as a plot element then as a real fight. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think what people usually describe as viable tactics for flying dragons in an open field make for exciting fights. I keep thinking about poor swordsman waiting on the ground while archers and wizards try to do something useful and members of the group are snatched one by one.

You're absolutely right about this. Dragon's flying around for 20 rounds and doing flyby breath attacks is hardly exciting.

But unfortunately putting them within melee range is asking for a dead Dragon. They need about double their hit points to actually provide an epic fight.

Maybe one of their legendary actions should be "Second Wind" or something, which allows them to regain 1d10 + their CR worth of hit points. Also get rid of their legendary perception check and give them true sight instead.

 

[Rhenny]

DMs need to give dragons anti-fighter tactics - Trip and then pounce or rake, or land on the fighter and grapple/pin. I'd even let the larger dragons grapple/pin with its body while attacking with front claws or bite.