Umm [MENTION=6786202]DaveDash[/MENTION]. Could you break down you SS fighter a bit. How is he doing 135 points in 3 attacks?
That's probably an Action Surge round, possibly with haste.
Umm [MENTION=6786202]DaveDash[/MENTION]. Could you break down you SS fighter a bit. How is he doing 135 points in 3 attacks?
I wish we could focus this mostly on DMs. Players rarely want to give up power. Though it is nice to know at least the community is fairly split with 54% wanting to do something about the feat and 46% wanting to leave it as is.
I imagine it's the group with optimizers that see the problems the feats cause. I know the problem is rather narrow. It's the ability to focus fire using multiple attacks with Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master often in combination with an ability like Action Surge, haste, or Smiting that is the primary cause of the problem. As a DM I don't mind when the players can take down multiples faster, in those circumstances I like GWM and Sharpshooter at full strength. When a party is fighting a single powerful monster or NPC supposedly strong enough to challenge them alone, and GWM and Sharpshooter double the damage on the target on top of everyone else novaing while buffed to the gills creates a very anticlimactic battle. There have been multiple instances where the players have taken a fight and turned it trivial due to those two feats doubling the damage of an Action Surging fighter or increased the damage by about 30% per hit for a smiting paladin. Even might dragons go down quick to this damage, creatures less powerful than dragons go down in a round of two. I recall fighting a supposedly strong single target non-legendary creature and a supposedly powerful priest using a legendary artifact, the fights lasted 6 to 12 seconds due to GWF and Sharpshooter damage. A lot of caster enemies are fairly easy to hit and have low hit points making these feats particularly effective against such enemies.
Given this narrow situation for their abuse, I can see why there are still quite a few that don't see the problem with them. I hope as time goes by, more will see it.
So basically what you are saying is, that 54% wants to do something about the feats and the other 46% just needs to come to their senses?
I agree with this. The problem becomes more recognizable at higher levels, as increased stats, proficienices, and possible magical weapon up a character's accuracy, as well as more attacks leading to more visibility of the elevated damage on a round-to-round basis. It's not such a big deal when you change your odds from hitting on an 11 to a 16 once a round, but when you have 3 attacks that hit on an 8 instead of a 3, you start seeing those rounds of 60+ damage a lot more frequently. That's when people at the table really start to take notice.The reason I said as times goes by is because 5E is relatively new. The current campaigns are petering out at around level 6 according to surveys with very few going to level 12. You won't get much information from a game system if most are playing to level 6 out of 20 possible levels. I'm hoping once there is a larger number of people that have played past level 6 or even 12, other DMs will note the damage discrepancy and the issues the feats cause. We will see more hop on board of the "change these feats" wagon. Even many posting on these threads have very little experience with the feats. I think of the people posting often on the topic only Dave and I have played a fairly core rules campaign to 16th level with characters and parties taking optimal advantage of the feats. I believe Merric has played to level 12. If I recall his party was an odd set of classes that I'm not sure had either feat present.
Is that how you take it? As some sort of implied personal insult?
The reason I said as times goes by is because 5E is relatively new. The current campaigns are petering out at around level 6 according to surveys with very few going to level 12. You won't get much information from a game system if most are playing to level 6 out of 20 possible levels. I'm hoping once there is a larger number of people that have played past level 6 or even 12, other DMs will note the damage discrepancy and the issues the feats cause. We will see more hop on board of the "change these feats" wagon. Even many posting on these threads have very little experience with the feats. I think of the people posting often on the topic only Dave and I have played a fairly core rules campaign to 16th level with characters and parties taking optimal advantage of the feats. I believe Merric has played to level 12. If I recall his party was an odd set of classes that I'm not sure had either feat present.
Most people are probably on their first or second campaign given how new 5E is. When a game is that new, you don't see issues with it. Dave and I happen to have some serious optimizers in our groups. They know how to read the rules and make a crazy powerful character. Not everyone does this whether by choice or lack of system mastery. For me it is important to slow down options that shunt players into certain feats or types of characters that overshadow other types. It creates a bad situation where you have guys that may want to make a TWF or blaster wizard and feel vastly underpowered compared to a GWF or Sharpshooter. I feel that is the main problem with the feats. Until more people have a chance to play in groups where the feats are used by optimized characters, the problem will be hard to see.
So hopefully you now understand why I said "I hope as time goes by, more will see it", it being the problem with the feats.