[D&D] What is a 'Half' Orc?

[Eltab]

If elves and humans can have fertile offspring, and so can orcs and humans, then all three must be subspecies of the same species. … humans should have some quality that makes them compatible breeders with any other humanoid race

half-dwarves

in reverse order:
2) Mul (see the Dark Sun Campaign Setting)
1) Usually un-mentioned Human Racial Trait: Prolific Breeder. You can try to have children with a member of any other race you want. Or vice versa.

There was a thread not long ago that got tangled up in the grey area between fantasy and genetics. I think any attempt at 'scientific' or 'realistic' rules simulation is doomed to futility. (Maybe I give up too easily?)

There are arctic terns ringing the far North that can interbreed with colonies near their own but cannot interbreed with colonies from half-way around the Arctic Circle. I don't know how you lay the boundaries between 'species' and various 'sub-species' of these birds. But they might make a good prototype for in-game discussions of mixed-blood children, if the campaign wants to feature such as more than occasional supporting characters.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

But in the latter case, we should also have half-dwarves, half-halflings, half-gnomes, etc.

There's nothing that says we can't. All it says is that we don't.

Part of the assumed default setting is that there is not significant mixing between most of the races. That dwarves and halflings have never in their genetic history chosen to mate with a human, could just be a cultural thing.

 

[Lord Irongron]

It has always seemed to me that at least in the Forgotten Realms setting Half-Orc is a really common race, and certainly not exotic. Given their numbers, how one generally encounters them eveywhere coupledwith the low lifespan, the whole 'orc raider with human woman' doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

I suppose it is best I continue going with 'humans who carry the stigma of orcish blood' approach.

 

[Charlaquin]

in reverse order:
2) Mul (see the Dark Sun Campaign Setting)

Muls are specific to Darkn Sun though, as far as I know. Even if we accept that they could happen in other settings, they’re sterile, which would suggest dwarves are more genetically different from humans than elves or orcs are.

1) Usually un-mentioned Human Racial Trait: Prolific Breeder. You can try to have children with a member of any other race you want. Or vice versa.

Huh. Well, there that is. But that just makes me want to see more examples of half-human races.

There was a thread not long ago that got tangled up in the grey area between fantasy and genetics. I think any attempt at 'scientific' or 'realistic' rules simulation is doomed to futility. (Maybe I give up too easily?)

Oh, it definitely is. It’s just a question of how far you can stretch suspension do disbelief. For me personally, half-races are too much of a stretch. I understand that they’re fine for most other people, and I’m not saying the game should change to accommodate my preferences.

There are arctic terns ringing the far North that can interbreed with colonies near their own but cannot interbreed with colonies from half-way around the Arctic Circle. I don't know how you lay the boundaries between 'species' and various 'sub-species' of these birds. But they might make a good prototype for in-game discussions of mixed-blood children, if the campaign wants to feature such as more than occasional supporting characters.[/QUOTE]

 

[TwoSix]

Oh, it definitely is. It’s just a question of how far you can stretch suspension do disbelief. For me personally, half-races are too much of a stretch. I understand that they’re fine for most other people, and I’m not saying the game should change to accommodate my preferences.

 

[Eltab]

That dwarves and halflings have never in their genetic history chosen to mate with a human, could just be a cultural thing.

They smell funny to each other? (Perfume / cologne doesn't help; what makes the body smell good, itself smells funny with a different odor).
Large pupils subconsciously indicates 'you have my full attention' to a human; this is why romantic restaurants are dimly-lit. Maybe halfling and/or dwarven brains register large pupils as 'I detect food nearby'.
Or they just don't register as 'valid target of desire' to each other.

Larry Niven's essay "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" offers a humorous view on the situation.

 

[zztong]

Given the bizarre and widely varied sexual interests found in the (reality) human race, I have to think there have been Dwarf-Halfling, uh, relationships. In one of the latest "Hobbit" movies, there was an Elf-Dwarf romantic interest developing. Perhaps there's some kind of physical incompatibility other than genetics. Do Halflings lay eggs?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Given the bizarre and widely varied sexual interests found in the (reality) human race, I have to think there have been Dwarf-Halfling, uh, relationships. In one of the latest "Hobbit" movies, there was an Elf-Dwarf romantic interest developing. Perhaps there's some kind of physical incompatibility other than genetics. Do Halflings lay eggs?

That assumes a certain amount of interaction between the races, which isn't necessarily the case in any given setting. If one in a hundred dwarves find halflings to be attractive rather than annoying, and the reverse was also true, then you'd need ten-thousand interactions before the right people found each other.

The fundamental basis of D&D assumes a particular type of setting, where those interactions are rare. The reason why certain classes and races exist, in the way they do, is because the rules are trying to reflect a pseudo-Medieval-plus-Tolkien setting. And for whatever reason, those assumptions were never re-examined when they moved the game to a much more fantastical setting, like Faerun. It's the same reason why Lawful Good paladins were a thing: it made sense in the default assumed setting, and wasn't re-examined when being imported to a different setting.

 

[Charlaquin]

if you look to our own planet, there were once several species that were interfertile. Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, Denisovan seem to have been. I don't know about Habilus or Erectus.

Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis, commonly called Neanderthals, were a subspecies of Homo Sapiens, so it’s only natural that Homo Sapiens Sapiens, commonly called humans, be imterfertile with them. “Cro-Magnun Man” is an outdated term for European early modern humans and were just straight-up Homo Sapiens Sapiens. “Denisovans’” taxonomy is still under debate (variously being referred to as Homo sp. Altai, or Homo sapiens ssp. Denisova. However, since there is strong evidence of interfertility, and interfertility is how species are defined taxonomically, it’s probably safe to call them a subspecies of Homo Sapiens as well. Homo Habilus and Homo Erectus were probably too far removed genetically to be compatible, but they’re also too far removed in time from Sapiens to have bred.

(Also ate least in AD&D terms, halfings are interfertile with other species. Tallfellow halflings have elf/human blood, stouts have dwarf/gnome, I think leprechauns are supposedly halfling/brownie or halfling/pixie)

Right, all of which suggests a relatively recent common ancestor between the various humanoid races which is inconsistent with their various origin stories. I mean, ultimately there’s just no way to reconcile gods objectively existing and directly creating the humanoid races with real-world evolutionary biology. But personally, I’d rather just avoid the question by having different races not be interfertile.

 

[Sunseeker]

So, first you take a whole orc and a really big sword....



I once thought about running Orcs like Tieflings, basically the "taint" of Orcus or Grummush or whoever is what makes them look the way they do, but fundamentally they're just mutated humans. So thats why they can only have babies with humans and no matter what that taint can only be "halved" once.