Deity Ranks: Quasideities, Lesser Deities, Greater Deities

[SkidAce]

I mostly agree with [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] on things like this, however I abhor the word "intermediate god".

"I am a greater god fools!" certainly rolls off the tongue well enough.

And even "Sadly, it is beyond my power as I am but a lessor god." can be made to work.

But "We intermediate gods are not allowed to manifest on the prime" sound like blech.

 

[Shiroiken]

I really hate the new system, and ignore it accordingly for world building. Also, the term "god" is relative for these endeavors, since powerful demons, daemons, devils, elementals, and even some fey should have the ability to grant spells to worshipers, making them "gods." I know many people here would argue that they should only have warlocks, but I have never seen any actual difference given between the "gods" and non-gods, except arbitrary designation.

Anywho, here's my breakdown of the gods:

Greater (Elder) God - represents a fundamental aspect of the universe, and is beyond the understanding of mortals. Most have many temples, but few dedicated worshipers, with most give homage only when their aspect is going to be immediately relevant (such as giving tribute to Mother Earth before the spring planting). Boccob, for example, is the Archmage of the Gods, and represents the god of magic for mortals

Lesser Gods (usually just called the Gods) - have a much more specific sphere of influence, but also have a greater interest in the mortal realm. Their temples are usually more focused to an area, with mostly dedicated worshipers. The average mortal that is dedicated to a single god, is usually dedicated to a Lesser God. Heironious, for example, is the Invincible Knight, and represents the god of chivalry and valor.

Demi-Gods - gods that were once mortal, and because of this, their home plane of existence is often the mortal realm. This gives them incredible, but localized power. It is possible for a demi-god to rise to become one of the Lesser Gods, but the time-frame for such is usually longer than the lifespan of their home planet. Iuz the Old One, for example, is a demi-god who has gathered all types of evil humanoids to his banner, building an empire that lasts for many human generations, serving as their god of oppression and wickedness.

Quasi-Deities - like demi-gods, these were once mortals who have broken the limits for mortality. Unlike Demi-gods, however, they have very little power beyond no longer aging. They can grant spells to followers, but only those within a set distance (usually a few miles), which keeps the church from expanding. They usually have a small, but devoted following of worshipers (often called a cult). Kelanen, for example, is the Prince of Swords, a mortal who has completely mastered every form of blade, usually spends his days traveling the mortal realm looking for worthy foes to face, accompanied by his worshipers/apprentices (until they die or choose to face adventures more suited to their abilities).

 

[dave2008]

1e I don't know enough about to comment on.

The 1e Deities and Demigods listed: demigods, lesser gods, & greater gods. It also had some powerful monsters that were god-like (could kill gods), but were not actually gods.

 

[gyor]

I actually quite like reading about the different ranks of gods and how they have changed edition to edition.

Basic had Immortals with 6 ranks of power relating to the immortals level in the immortal class: Initiate, Temporal, Celestial, Empyreal, Eternal, Hierarch.

1e I don't know enough about to comment on.

2e has demigods, lesser gods, intermediate gods, and greater gods. Depending on the rank the amount of spell power granted to priests was limited. Demigods could grant up to 5th level spells, lesser up to 6th level spells, and intermediate and greater gods up to 7th level spells. Not a fun restriction if you wanted to play a cleric and found the mythos of a demigod a perfect fit for your PC. I believe they also had quasi-deities in 2e but I can't think of any examples.

3e kept the same distinction and split them up among divine ranks. Quasi-deities (rank 0), demigod (1-5), lesser (6-10), intermediate (11-15), greater (16-20), overgod (21+). Divine powers were specifically linked to the number of divine ranks you had, you gained 1 salient divine power for each rank and the power of your spell-like abilities was also based on this. I wanted to use 3e's divine ranks to run an immortals of Mystara campaign but it never happened.

4e simplified everything, you had the gods and then you had exarchs were were essentially lesser gods by another name. The dwarven pantheon was made up of the god Moradin and his exarchs, the other former gods of the pantheon.

5e seems to be following the distinctions in 4e but the exarchs are now known as gods and the gods are now greater gods. Demigods, as has been noted, are not powerful enough to grant spellpower. I'd forgotten this until reading through this thread.

I honestly don't know which system I prefer most. On the one hand, having a handful of greater gods and then a bunch of gods serving them is nice and simple, but I think sometimes having more distinctions would be useful depending on the kind of game you're playing.

Actually I believe the 4e FRCG made a distinction between Exarch, Gods and Greater Gods. Example Bane was a greater God, and he was served by Tiamat and Lovitar who were Gods, and Hoar who was an Exarch I believe.

As for 2e, I think the Forgotten Realms was exempt from the level limits for clerics wasn't it? Or was they Mystics and Speciality Priests classes?

 

[dave2008]

I mostly agree with [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] on things like this, however I abhor the word "intermediate god".

"I am a greater god fools!" certainly rolls off the tongue well enough.

And even "Sadly, it is beyond my power as I am but a lessor god." can be made to work.

But "We intermediate gods are not allowed to manifest on the prime" sound like blech.

I agree, in those terms "intermediate" god is a bit clunky. However, I think the categories lesser, intermediate, greater are of mortal creation / use and gods do not see themselves that way. A god would never declare itself a greater god, it just refers to itself as a god. I just like having something between greater and lesser. Just to big of a jump for me.

 

[gyor]

I mostly agree with [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] on things like this, however I abhor the word "intermediate god".

"I am a greater god fools!" certainly rolls off the tongue well enough.

And even "Sadly, it is beyond my power as I am but a lessor god." can be made to work.

But "We intermediate gods are not allowed to manifest on the prime" sound like blech.

Honestly I don't like "Lesser" God, because in character whose going to call their God "Lesser"? Blasphemy! ;p

I like 5e's ranks because it has an interest twist at the end, it gets rid of intermediates, Greater Gods Avatars are Lesser Gods (which begs to question are Lesser Gods Avatars Quasigods?), and I like the Quasigod catagory and how they structured it and that it does have spiritual meaning, plus it makes the Pantheon more diverse.

An added twist to this is from MTOFs, Archdevil cults are automatically cults to Asmodeaus as well, so argueably, this means Archdevils can have clerics empowered by Asmodeus (in theory they worshop Asmodeaus and serve him, in practice they pray to their Archdevil and serve their interests while paying enough lip service to Asmodeaus to continue to get spells).

 

[gyor]

I agree, in those terms "intermediate" god is a bit clunky. However, I think the categories lesser, intermediate, greater are of mortal creation / use and gods do not see themselves that way. A god would never declare itself a greater god, it just refers to itself as a god. I just like having something between greater and lesser. Just to big of a jump for me.

Actually in FR they do refet to themselves this way or akin to that because only the Greater Gods get to join the ruling circle of the Faerun Pantheon.

One rank that is still a thing, but not mentioned in the DMG is Overgod like AO.

 

[dave2008]

Actually I believe the 4e FRCG made a distinction between Exarch, Gods and Greater Gods.

That is correct, but the Pol setting was not so construed. In addition, the ECG doesn't make any distinction between gods, greater gods, and exarchs. And of course dark sun has its own thing too. I think the important thing here is that it is fluid. There is not one official way to describe deities.

Just like 4e, I think 5e has the default approach (DMG, MM, MToF), but then there is the various settings that diverge from that, but official and of course homebrew. I don't think WotC is saying there has to be only one "official" method to interpret divinity.

 

[dave2008]

Actually in FR they do refet to themselves this way or akin to that because only the Greater Gods get to join the ruling circle of the Faerun Pantheon.

I wasn't suggesting there is no difference in ranks among gods. I just don't think they refer to themselves as "greater gods" They just are, it doesn't need to be said. Just like in 3e, I don't think a god would say I am divine rank 11. They just are and it is understood by all gods.

One rank that is still a thing, but not mentioned in the DMG is Overgod like AO.

Not in my game. I've never liked the concept of overgods and AO in particular.

 

[gyor]

I really hate the new system, and ignore it accordingly for world building. Also, the term "god" is relative for these endeavors, since powerful demons, daemons, devils, elementals, and even some fey should have the ability to grant spells to worshipers, making them "gods." I know many people here would argue that they should only have warlocks, but I have never seen any actual difference given between the "gods" and non-gods, except arbitrary designation.

Anywho, here's my breakdown of the gods:

Greater (Elder) God - represents a fundamental aspect of the universe, and is beyond the understanding of mortals. Most have many temples, but few dedicated worshipers, with most give homage only when their aspect is going to be immediately relevant (such as giving tribute to Mother Earth before the spring planting). Boccob, for example, is the Archmage of the Gods, and represents the god of magic for mortals

Lesser Gods (usually just called the Gods) - have a much more specific sphere of influence, but also have a greater interest in the mortal realm. Their temples are usually more focused to an area, with mostly dedicated worshipers. The average mortal that is dedicated to a single god, is usually dedicated to a Lesser God. Heironious, for example, is the Invincible Knight, and represents the god of chivalry and valor.

Demi-Gods - gods that were once mortal, and because of this, their home plane of existence is often the mortal realm. This gives them incredible, but localized power. It is possible for a demi-god to rise to become one of the Lesser Gods, but the time-frame for such is usually longer than the lifespan of their home planet. Iuz the Old One, for example, is a demi-god who has gathered all types of evil humanoids to his banner, building an empire that lasts for many human generations, serving as their god of oppression and wickedness.

Quasi-Deities - like demi-gods, these were once mortals who have broken the limits for mortality. Unlike Demi-gods, however, they have very little power beyond no longer aging. They can grant spells to followers, but only those within a set distance (usually a few miles), which keeps the church from expanding. They usually have a small, but devoted following of worshipers (often called a cult). Kelanen, for example, is the Prince of Swords, a mortal who has completely mastered every form of blade, usually spends his days traveling the mortal realm looking for worthy foes to face, accompanied by his worshipers/apprentices (until they die or choose to face adventures more suited to their abilities).

One of the differences between deities and other Cosmic beings is deities, even quasideities, gain power from being worship. Demogorgon has uses for Worshippers, it may even feed his ego, but Demigorgon does not gain power from the worship itself and it won't make him a God, an Empyrean on the other hand might not be as powerful as the Prince of Demons, but does gain power from being worshipped which if it grows large enough can become lesser gods.