Diplomatic Immunity: Almost Ready Maybe?

[Brother Shatterstone]

I don't see how you would just make that assumption, though. It is similar to saying that the list of Rowaini classes indicates that you could be one of the Wraithsong Pirates from the Arnivian Ocean and choose the Knight class.

Until this post I had no reason to assume they cannot other than a possible alignment constraint but everywhere you go you can find someone to buck the common trend.

I completely and entirely agree with you, and I believe you have come across the key point here--you are letting small details damage your concept when I don't see why they need to do so.

Cause as I've explained before I see/write very visual with the aim of having scenes that forum in my head happen.

What can I say? The fact that I don't have published setting info is, indeed my fault, but the way I would go about it is to ask if you don't have some info that you need.

Right, my fault entirely, and if I hadn't bothered to ask you and had finished my Amazon character only then would I have found out that the RAW is wrong.

I'm still perplexed as to how whether or not you can use Superior Finesse with a Size Large Greatsword makes or breaks an Amazon Diplomat character concept...

You forgot to mention how your RAW does allow for such a thing and you fail to realize just how annoying and upset I get that if I hadn't asked before I finished my character it would be all for not. (and again please not that I’m very visual in my writing style and my head was full of scenes for this character already.)

The tribes aren't too too disparate in their culture, they just don't see themselves as a whole political unit that would have a single representative. While some of the Conacians do fight unarmed, they aren't votresses because they don't swear themselves to powerful mistresses as harbingers of peace who disdain weapons and gain divine power. They'd probably be Amazons who took unarmed fighting feats and maybe multiclassed a bit in Nymph and or Monk.

So why they would have a martial arts style they do not have a class for it. Interesting and very much frustrating.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The tribes aren't too too disparate in their culture, they just don't see themselves as a whole political unit that would have a single representative.

RA, I would need the political outline/structure of Amaranthia. You know key players within each organization, what motivates these organizations and the key players. just how splintered the Conacian tribes are. Who my character represents, what she's trying to achieve, and what they expect her to achieve. (you always want more than you can get politically.)

I would also need to know what skills would be most useful and the over skill modifier needed to know the answers to the above.

 

[Rystil Arden]

would I have found out that the RAW is wrong.

The RAW is not wrong. You just did not interpret it the way I had meant it to be read. I gave you a clarification, and you got mad. It happens all the time with Wizards errata--again, I had one day per class for a lot of these classes, sometimes I did two in one day--the wording will not be airtight.

You forgot to mention how your RAW does allow for such a thing

It doesn't, see above.

Until this post I had no reason to assume they cannot other than a possible alignment constraint but everywhere you go you can find someone to buck the common trend.

It is because the Wraithsong Pirates are not knights. Even if you meet the alignment requirement for the Knight class, you are not a Knight (Capital letter indicating the character class) unless you are a knight. I know this seems confusing, but it simply is. Similarly, aren't a Votress unless you are a votress.

So why they would have a martial arts style they do not have a class for it. Interesting and very much frustrating.

Because just because you want to fight unarmed doesn't mean you get a special class. You could go through that question with every world--by which I mean the following:

"Rystil! The Rowaini don't have a special class with unarmed fighting, but surely someone on Tymadeau must fight unarmed!"

"Yes, there are some people who do, but usually they just take unarmed fighting feats with the Tymadeau classes or perhaps take levels Monk."

"What? Why did just create a martial arts style and no class for it?"

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The RAW is not wrong. You just did not interpret it the way I had meant it to be read. I gave you a clarification, and you got mad. It happens all the time with Wizards errata--again, I had one day per class for a lot of these classes, sometimes I did two in one day--the wording will not be airtight.

First, I don't think I got mad about it. I haven't curse in an email today... So yeah in all.

It doesn't, see above.

It does see below:

Superior Weapon Finesse: The Amazon can use her Dexterity bonus instead of her Strength bonus to determine attack rolls for any weapon with which she is proficient, even heavy weapons.

With your wording above and the wording of Monkey Grip it does allow for this to work and your suggestion for an epic feat to fix it was just awesome.

It is because the Wraithsong Pirates are not knights. Even if you meet the alignment requirement for the Knight class, you are not a Knight (Capital letter indicating the character class) unless you are a knight. I know this seems confusing, but it simply is. Similarly, aren't a Votress unless you are a votress.

Untill its written that way in your write up why should I assume it to be true?

Should I simply give a race to you and you tell me what class I am to be?

Because just because you want to fight unarmed doesn't mean you get a special class. You could go through that question with every world--by which I mean the following:

"Rystil! The Rowaini don't have a special class with unarmed fighting, but surely someone on Tymadeau must fight unarmed!"

"Yes, there are some people who do, but usually they just take unarmed fighting feats with the Tymadeau classes or perhaps take levels Monk."

"What? Why did just create a martial arts style and no class for it?"

I think the truth of the matter is that your classes are to suspfific in some cases. The Martial Arts is a great example of this. There's over two hundred or so martial arts on this planet alone. I have no reason to beleive that all the masters in all the spheres happen to be on one planet. (I think we can agree to you that one or two feats does not replace what a monk gets.)

You keep suggesting that someone take a normal class as if that's an honest suggestion. If I wanted to play a straight fighter and not look at one of your classes you wouldn't be upset? That's a pretty big snuff and it’s also a horrible disadvantage in gestalt classes or do you think your classes are balanced with the normal classes?

 

[Rystil Arden]

It does see below:

But I clarified--heavy weapons means weapons up to one size category larger than yourself (so a two-handed weapon for your character).

 

[Rystil Arden]

There's over two hundred or so martial arts on this planet alone. I have no reason to beleive that all the masters in all the spheres happen to be on one planet.

The ones who aren't on planets that have their own special martial arts class are monks. I think you have told me a crucial point to why you are having problems here...I think the other players are looking at my 60ish new classes and saying, "Cool, he made all these new classes--I'd really like to try an X (be it Swashbuckler, Arcanist, etc)" and then they go make an X, and it works out. But you go at it from a different angle, "How can I make an X that is totally unique and special, different from all the other Xs out there." This can sometimes cause problems, although sometimes, when you work carefully with me on it, it doesn't because I help guide you to something special/unique that also doesn't jar with the setting.

 

[Bront]

Should I simply give a race to you and you tell me what class I am to be?

The problem is not simply race, but culture. I've actualy broken the sterio types twice, and I simply had to include it in the background as to why.

In Kirkesh's case, a Dolthi Swashbuckler is a rarity, so he grew up on Rowani before he set off spelljamming in space, and I included some time he spent in Amarathia specificly to explain a few other things about his personality, skills, and knowledge.

In my Amazon's case, a Marksman is normaly an Eldiz class, but it's available in other forms. I'll explain it however, and given her overall concept, it works well (She mimics a ranger/fighter gestault quite well, which was sort of the intent). Also, I wasn't exactly thrilled with the Man-hating, so I'm setting her up as having never seen or met a man, and her knowledge of one is mostly the somewhat exagerated stories her sisters tell her about them and their evil. So, if she can stop kicking a man in the groin (The root of their evil, the source of their power, and their one weak spot as far as she knows) long enough to get to know one, she might actualy find that some are tolerable.

Here's another example of somethign you could do. Perhaps your Knight was origionaly a Knight, but was captured later and eventualy forced into a life of Piracy, so he might be a full knight in the Pirate lands.

Basicly, if you're creative and flexable with the concept, you can get around a lot of the social and racial restrictions Rystil has, as many of them are "A typical xxxx class is played by yyy race from place zzzz on planet wwww." which means that there are A-typical people as well.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the spheres are micro-cosims of life and civilization, so they often don't have exceedingly diverse societies like we would view earth, because, well, they aren't earth. So, it is entirely possable that there are few unarmed warriors in Rowani, and that they are quite inferior to those on other planets where unarmed combat is a planet wide tradition of dicipline and excersize.

Anyway, please, both of you, there's no need to fight. BS, if you have your heart set on a concept, then work on making it work. If there are cultural issues, maybe you need to rethink it a bit, but you can make it work by flexing the concept a bit. I know you have plenty of good concepts, so don't get discouraged when one thing doesn't go quite how you wanted it to. And Rystil, try to help him by suggesting ways he can go about what he wants instead of simply saying no (Like my Knight/Pirate idea, which I'm sure you'd allow if I wrote it up well enough).

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

But I clarified--heavy weapons means weapons up to one size category larger than yourself (so a two-handed weapon for your character).

Yes and with Monkey Grip a large greatsword is still two handed...

You also ignore the rest of my post, which frustrates me, but with the Monkey Grip and the Greatsword question as I said long ago in email I accepted your house ruling of it.

(You can pretty much redefine any class ability your classes have as we go... The only reason we are talking about this again is you brought up the particulars in public. At which point I wanted my side seen.)

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The ones who aren't on planets that have their own special martial arts class are monks.

Fine my "Amazon" will be a monk then.

I think you have told me a crucial point to why you are having problems here...I think the other players are looking at my 60ish new classes and saying, "Cool, he made all these new classes--I'd really like to try an X (be it Swashbuckler, Arcanist, etc)" and then they go make an X, and it works out. But you go at it from a different angle, "How can I make an X that is totally unique and special, different from all the other Xs out there." This can sometimes cause problems, although sometimes, when you work carefully with me on it, it doesn't because I help guide you to something special/unique that also doesn't jar with the setting.

Yup, I would agree... It’s a shame too. :\

 

[Rystil Arden]

Bront:
[SBLOCK]

And Rystil, try to help him by suggesting ways he can go about what he wants instead of simply saying no (Like my Knight/Pirate idea, which I'm sure you'd allow if I wrote it up well enough).

Believe it or not, I do come up with these kinds of ideas just like that one, and usually they aren't OK with BS. Every so often, though, he likes one of them, but sometimes I run out of them and he doesn't like any.
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