D&D 5E Disintegrate Vs. Druid

[Spastik]

Sure, because the BBEG is sitting there for rounds just allowing you to cast those spells. You have to roll badly enough on the portent rolls to cause the BBEG to fail two saves. He has to not have abilities to counter those abilities. With that kind of effort, sure, go for it. At that point you are high level anyway.

As for the 1 in 6 chance of it being cast on you in a campaign, that translates into once every 6 campaigns, which is right in with what I said, AND the druid has to fail the save. Players just don't have to worry about it.

It's just one spell, polymorph and that's it. If he fails it (portent would more than likely make that a heck yes) he is dead. He can't do anything but make a slow slime trail as a slug while you load up disintegrate. That's not just a druid, that's casting poly on just about anything.

And the 1 in 6 thing isn't campaigns, its if you have a druid over lvl 10. When you play over 10, someone eventually gets hit with that spell, always. If you have 6 people in your party, 1 is a druid, 1 in 6 of him getting blasted. If no druid, then 0% chance.

 

[Spastik]

That's not an exact quote. I want to see where your claim is written in the rules. Give me the exact language that says you revert at 1 hit point and what page it's on please.

That's the EXACT language on p67 of the PHB. The entire sentence, word for word, an exact quote. Starts at the end of the 15th line.

 

[Maxperson]

It's just one spell, polymorph and that's it. If he fails it (portent would more than likely make that a heck yes) he is dead. He can't do anything but make a slow slime trail as a slug while you load up disintegrate. That's not just a druid, that's casting poly on just about anything.

The slug gets a save.

And the 1 in 6 thing isn't campaigns, its if you have a druid over lvl 10. When you play over 10, someone eventually gets hit with that spell, always. If you have 6 people in your party, 1 is a druid, 1 in 6 of him getting blasted. If no druid, then 0% chance.

It's not 100% that you will encounter disintegrate. Maybe it is in your games, but it's not a guarantee for other people's campaigns. It's not 100% that the druid will be wildshaped. It's not 100% that the druid will be targeted. And it's very likely that at that level, the druid will make his save.

That's the EXACT language on p67 of the PHB. The entire sentence, word for word, an exact quote. Starts at the end of the 15th line.

That doesn't say what you think it says. You are ignoring context, which is fail. You're basically give me fake news. The sentence immediately prior is a part of what line 15 means. Here are both sentences.

"However, if you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage."

The bolded portion cannot be ignored. It explicitly says that you revert as a result of dropping to 0. Line 15 is also about dropping to 0, because the context of the entire paragraph requires it to be so.

Heck, even in isolation it's about dropping to 0. If you are at 1 and take 10 damage, and you revert at 1hp, you cannot then take 9. Since you reverted at 1, no damage from the 10 has yet been applied, so by your explanation, it would require 10 hit points to be removed from the reverted druid. That 1 point didn't just vanish. No, line 15 requires that 1 hit point to go to 0, then revert and finish the final 9 hit points. That's quite literally the only way 10 damage can be applied and result in 9 damage to the druid's normal form.

 

[Spastik]

Pretty sure a slug wouldn't make a dex save, I'd have to rule it has a 1 dex since you can walk up to one and pour salt on it with ease. But yes, it would have a dex save at -5 lol to beat a more than likely 16 or higher DC. Won't happen because math.

Fake news? Not sure how an exact quote from beginning to end explaining how it works in detail leaving out nothing is fake. If there was a precursor to the quote or something after that was omitted, then yes it would be misleading. But that was the entire example, beginning to end, black and... parchment. I agree that the wording can be misleading, hence the clarification on how the math works RAW. Just follow that math they put in there, don't add anything extra or stray from the math, and you'll be ok. The RAI clarification by the man himself on the exact subject I quoted clears it up further. There is no 0 HP state, just the 1 hp state and the druid state. Again, if your wild shape has 1 HP and you take a HP throat punch, what happens? Do you revert to the druid form with it's current hp? Yes! Do you drop to 0, go unconscious, fall prone, then revert? No, that's not at all what is stated anywhere nor would that happen with disintegrate. Rule however you like, but this one is pretty simple and explained multiple times by the designers in the book and as an RAI. Homebrew whatever ya want, this is just for clarification for the OP on the actual RAW and RAI, not for homebrew.

Even with what you quoted, if you had 20 HP in animal form and get hit for 40, the 20 carries over to your normal form. You quoted it! Damage carries over! Not stop at 0 and fall unconscious, fall prone, lose concentration on any spell, and by the way be turned to dust. None of that is implied or written.

RAW including the VERY VERY specific math, you don't dust. (unless druid hits 0)
RAI as quoted, you don't dust. (unless druid hits 0)
Homebrew... whatever ya like!

 

[Maxperson]

Pretty sure a slug wouldn't make a dex save, I'd have to rule it has a 1 dex since you can walk up to one and pour salt on it with ease. But yes, it would have a dex save at -5 lol to beat a more than likely 16 or higher DC. Won't happen because math.

I think it's rich that you're using math here, because...

There is no 0 HP state, just the 1 hp state and the druid state. Again, if your wild shape has 1 HP and you take a HP throat punch, what happens? Do you revert to the druid form with it's current hp? Yes! Do you drop to 0, go unconscious, fall prone, then revert? No, that's not at all what is stated anywhere nor would that happen with disintegrate. Rule however you like, but this one is pretty simple and explained multiple times by the designers in the book and as an RAI. Homebrew whatever ya want, this is just for clarification for the OP on the actual RAW and RAI, not for homebrew.

This is basic math dude. You cannot, as in it's impossible, have 1 hit point, take 10, and then carry over 9 without first hitting 0. You have 1 if you skip 0, then 10 carries over. Easy peasy.

Even with what you quoted, if you had 20 HP in animal form and get hit for 40, the 20 carries over to your normal form. You quoted it! Damage carries over! Not stop at 0 and fall unconscious, fall prone, lose concentration on any spell, and by the way be turned to dust. None of that is implied or written.

Yes, I quoted it. More basic math. 20 - 20 = 0, then 20 more carries over.

RAW including the VERY VERY specific math, you don't dust. (unless druid hits 0)

Yes it does, and it requires 0 in order to work.

So let me ask you this. Why do you think the designers are liars? They say straight out more than once that the druid in animal form reaches 0 hit points. I know you can see that in the text. In order for you to be right, they have to be lying to us AND be incompetent at basic math. Why would they do that?

 

[Harzel]

this one is pretty simple and explained multiple times by the designers in the book and as an RAI.

You seem to conveniently keep ignoring this, which was in an actual Sage Advice article subsequent to the supposed tweet that you keep quoting that doesn't seem to any longer exist. (Can you provide a valid link?)

If the damage from disintegrate reduces a half-orc to 0 hit points, can Relentless Endurance prevent the orc from turning to ash? If disintegrate reduces you to 0 hit points, you’re killed outright, as you turn to dust. If you’re a half-orc, Relentless Endurance can’t save you.
What happens if a druid using Wild Shape is reduced to 0 hit points by disintegrate? Does the druid simply leave beast form? The druid turns to dust, since the spell disintegrates you the instant you drop to 0 hit points.

The context makes it very clear that if disintegrate drops a creature to 0, it turns to dust, other effects notwithstanding.

Personally, I'm not entirely sure that's the way I would like it to work, but the RAI seems to be quite clear.

 

[Maxperson]

You seem to conveniently keep ignoring this, which was in an actual Sage Advice article subsequent to the supposed tweet that you keep quoting that doesn't seem to any longer exist. (Can you provide a valid link?)

The context makes it very clear that if disintegrate drops a creature to 0, it turns to dust, other effects notwithstanding.

Personally, I'm not entirely sure that's the way I would like it to work, but the RAI seems to be quite clear.

I'm rather amused by the magical math that doesn't include 0, yet is somehow supposed to work, AND is in direct defiance of multiple explicit statements that 0 does happen.

 

[Spastik]

I'm rather amused by the magical math that doesn't include 0, yet is somehow supposed to work, AND is in direct defiance of multiple explicit statements that 0 does happen.

We’ll take it slow this time....

You are wild shaped, you have only 1 hp in wild shape but 50 as a Druid. You take one hp of damage, how many hp do you have left?

A: 50 as a Druid
B: 0 and unconscious, lose concentration spells, fall prone
C: Something else not listed anywhere in RAW or RAI

(Hint: It’s A)

You asked for the specific page, I gave it. You said that the PHB didn’t state what I quoted, it does. You asked for the sage, gave that too. Gave multiple examples of how you don’t actually have a 0 hp state in wild shape but yes it does count for math (p67 of the PHB shows you how to do said math). Not sure what else ya need nor do I understand why ya need it. Again, rule however you want in your game, it’s the DM’s choice! A Druid isn’t at 0 until his hp is at 0, same with temporary HP or polymorph or shapechange. If ya wanna cheese the game to make it easier, more power to ya! Just have fun doing whatever ya wanna do, but make sure if you are DMing that you let you players know about home brewing rules is all or you may have some unhappy people. Maybe even a nerd rage or two lol

 

[Maxperson]

We’ll take it slow this time....

You are wild shaped, you have only 1 hp in wild shape but 50 as a Druid. You take one hp of damage, how many hp do you have left?

A: 50 as a Druid
B: 0 and unconscious, lose concentration spells, fall prone
C: Something else not listed anywhere in RAW or RAI

(Hint: It’s A)

Fact: It's D. D: 0 as wildshape per RAW, then a reversion without losing consciousness, also per RAW.

You asked for the specific page, I gave it. You said that the PHB didn’t state what I quoted, it does. You asked for the sage, gave that too. Gave multiple examples of how you don’t actually have a 0 hp state in wild shape but yes it does count for math (p67 of the PHB shows you how to do said math). Not sure what else ya need nor do I understand why ya need it. Again, rule however you want in your game, it’s the DM’s choice! A Druid isn’t at 0 until his hp is at 0, same with temporary HP or polymorph or shapechange. If ya wanna cheese the game to make it easier, more power to ya! Just have fun doing whatever ya wanna do, but make sure if you are DMing that you let you players know about home brewing rules is all or you may have some unhappy people. Maybe even a nerd rage or two lol

You've repeatedly ignored where wildshape says explicitly in multiple places that it goes to 0 in animal form before reversion, and ignored the official ruling in Sage Advice that came after the tweet you listed. At this point you are doing nothing but arguing in bad faith which makes you a troll. Stop trolling me and go troll somewhere else.

 

[Spastik]

As for the math part, here goes.

For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage.

Your druid has 50 hp, your wildshape has 1. That is a total HP pool of 51 correct? If you take the 10 damage, the Druid now has 41 HP in normal form. Going from 51 to 41 is a total of 10 damage. Simple!

There is no number between 51 and 50. There is no 0 state between 51 and 50. Say if you had negative hp as in the past, the step would be 2 to go from 1 to 0 to -1 (or in your case 1 to 0 to 50 as a Druid). There is no step in this case which you are arguing there is a 0 hp state in which there isn't. The druid is either in wild shape, or in druid form, that's it. This is why the math says 9 carries over, not 8. That is why you don't fall unconscious, why you don't lose concentration, fall prone, or disintegrate. Just think of it as a total HP pool and that may click for you. Saying you are both at 0 HP and 50HP simultaneously is incorrect.