Essentials: Magic Item Rarity Explained, it's actually good!

[Henry]

As for the rule change, I like it, and have been implementing a poor man's version of it for a while now - called "no such thing as buying and selling magic items as a regular commodity." I'll give out the awesome items, but only allow purchase of the basic "+X" items, and handle sales of the awesome items on a case-by-case basis.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Lot's of people are arguing that rare items are rare and sell better. That means they should have a higher price, not that the fluidity of the market is better.

Obviously, a rare item's scarcity will be represented in the cost. Now, take that rare item's cost, and compare it to common goods of equal cost. Which will the merchant sell for less? the item he habitually stocks and is sure to sell fairly quickly and for which there's considerable competition (any other merchant or artificer can supply it) and easy for him to restock or the item that's rare, difficult to value, and for which there's no competition?

There will be a greater markup for rare items - which is part of the reason for their high price - which means that given the price, the common items can be resold more easily for less loss.

Aegeri, you're arguing rare items should be more expensive - I agree. I'm arguing that given that, the difficulty of buying and selling them will mean that the price difference between buying and selling from a merchant will be greater.

Here's the problem, eamon. You're utilizing an economic theory that works for a mass market economy with a HUGE (near infinite) amount more liquidity and availability than would exist in some medieval sort of PoL world economy.

Considering "common" items: If you want a lesson in this type of economics go dig up some piece of jewelry you own and take it down to the local jeweler and ask them to give you a quote on it. I can virtually guarantee that they price they will quote is basically the metal salvage value. You'll be LUCKY if they offer you 20% of the retail price they would sell it for. This is a lot like the PoL common magic item economy where you sell for salvage (disenchant) value. The vendor has no guarantee that they can move the item at all. Its price is still very high (360 gp is easily 3-4 years wages for a peasant and still a pretty good chunk of change for even modestly well-off townspeople). The vendor really has little guarantee that he CAN sell the item in any reasonable amount of time. He's got to tie up a substantial amount of capital, a rare commodity in a PoL world, in order to carry the item. Under these conditions 500% markups are not really all that unusual. Additionally there is unlikely to be another vendor competing with him. Either you take his price, disenchant the item yourself, or sell it to some other arcane practitioner who really only wants it for the salvage value. The PCs could of course set up their own magic shop and maybe once in a while sell items at full value, meanwhile tying up THEIR capital and incurring overhead costs to boot. Presumably this business is unlikely to perform better than the existing vendor's business, given that logically he's making rational business decisions.

When it comes to uncommon and rare items there is no logic of any kind. Neither of these classes of items can be constructed at all.

Presumably uncommon items exist and the few people that have the money to tie up in them have most of what they need. It is doubtful that there is really much of a market in these items at all, but they do have high utility value. Chances are someone will pay a reasonable amount for them. PCs might well be able to get full value, again IF they are willing to shop around. The market here is something like that for rare collectible items in the real world, if you want to sell it NOW you take a pretty good hit. In fact with the Internet allowing easy connection of buyers and sellers this has changed somewhat, but my mother used to buy and sell rare collectible books back in the day. I seriously doubt she ever paid 50% of market value for them and usually far less.

Rare items have no markup. They have no purchase price at all and the 100% is just some arbitrary number that the game provides as a sale price. Presumably this represents the PCs getting the best price that anyone in the local area can muster for this priceless item. If you COULD make such an item you can get the same price for it, which is the maximum amount of gold that is available in PoLand to be tied up in said item.

Retail economics simply isn't germane.

 

[eamon]

The relation between more fluid and less fluid items should still be consistent. Of course you don't expect these items to be as common or cheap as a pack of rice on a shop shelf, but many expensive things - say, oil tankers - are quite expensive and still display these dynamics. Its nothing about "retail", it's about the risk and effort the salesman is in and the competition he's under to provide a good price. The more common and tradable an item, the more competition and the less risk - meaning a lower margin. Particularly in a medieval world without telecommunications-based monopolies and oligopolies.

Rare items should be more expensive - not have a more fluid exchange.

As an aside, if there's buyers, there are sellers and vice versa (for obvious reasons) so if PC's can sell rare items with luck, they can buy them too - with luck. And in any case, all these arguments apply uncommon items too, and these are explicitly mentioned in the article to be occasionally available.

 

[Scribble]

I think it's important, when looking at these "How the rules translate" scenarios, to remember that the rules are built with the idea of keeping balance in mind.

Balance is a tool- and functions sort of like when an economist looks at the market under "perfect" conditions. It's not going to translate exactly to the real world. It just gives you an idea to start from. In oder to actually utilize it in the real world though, you have to consider a number of other factors (it's just a good baseline to give you a better understanding of the concepts.)

So in this case, we see that in order to maintain perfect balance, items buy and sell for the amounts listed in the books.

In the "real world" of the game, however, I generally let things like the diplomacy skill come into play, or size of the town, proximity to power centers, etc...

The numbers in the book are a starting point to show you where balance lies. I then take this into account (as a tool) and apply other information to represent the economy of my worlds.

(They're like the Kelly Blue Book value of a magic item.)

I can then take this and filter it back against the numbers in the book to give me a better idea of where my balance is... If for instance I've noticed PCs buying a number of under priced items- I know they're probably getting a little more powerful on the balance curve. (Or the opposite if they've been buying a lot of overpriced items.)

 

[vagabundo]

One of the key pieces here is that, by default, Rare and Uncommon magic items are not for sale to the PCs. So we know only know what merchants will pay for them; we have no idea at what they will sell. As a DM you can implement whatever you see fit.

I see it a different way - I'll find a $10.00 coffee maker at the Local Maxway/Family Dollar/What-have-you, yet would find the exact same make and model at the Flea Market for $2.00, because no one in their right mind will pay $10 used for something they can buy at the same price new. However, I won't find the local discount store offering it at $2.00 either. "used from a second hand vendor" means cheaper price.

Now, if you want to go to the trouble of setting up discount magic item shops in the campaign, whose magic items have minor defects from their time in the field, that sounds like some fun for the players.

I concur .. And now I need to put my thinking cap on and write a dungeon article called, "Cursed and Malfunctioning Magic Items for Fun and Profit"...

 

[Scribble]

I've never been a huge fan of used things... Something about it makes me... creeped out.

But a used food implement (ala Henry's Flea Market Coffee pot?) Egads that makes my skin crawl!

BLECH!

 

[vagabundo]

I've never been a huge fan of used things... Something about it makes me... creeped out.

But a used food implement (ala Henry's Flea Market Coffee pot?) Egads that makes my skin crawl!

BLECH!

I wouldn't wear used leather armour. It would be all sweaty and stuff.

 

[Mengu]

I don't see much talk about this, but to me, it seems like Common items are going to be the most powerful ones. Currently it's the items with static properties that are the most attractive to players, like Iron Armbands, Staff of Ruin, Vanguard Weapon, Horned Helmet, Battle Harness, Dragon Shards, etc. I'm guessing there are details they haven't shared with us yet.

Anybody know how they are going to quickly classify 8000+ items as circle, diamond, or star?

 

[TerraDave]

Oh, thats better. Much, much better.

*eamon: if this article is taken at face value, "list price" doesn't mean the same thing anymore--you can't just make these items. The opportunity cost of a rare item could be far, far above its list price.

*zaran: they strongly imply that these are guidelines, and that the DM has control. This may all (or mostly) be in the DMs kit and not even appear in a player book.

*mengu: yes, this is a change to the core, and we don't know how it will be implemented.

 

[jasin]

The article opens up with the observation that "there will always be better and worse items within a specific level. Sometimes that difference comes down to a character’s needs. Other times, players simply value one type of item over another, like one that deals extra damage." The better items will be more rare.

But I fail to see how they will avoid having better and worse items, within a specific level and rarity class.