Extinct: Customer Service- rant

[Banshee16]

No argument there...

I'm a firm believer in the idea that people have been getting dumber and dumber even as the amount of information necessary to learn gets larger and larger - so much for natural selection.

As an extreme example - there is a (and I don't know if it is a hoax or not) webpage showing a "Kansas 8th grade final exam" from 1895 - there is no way that an average "A" student from the current generation would pass the test. Unfortunately, too many kids have not been faced with failure, expect everything to be given to them without any effort, and are truculently assertive of their "rights." Of course, it doesn't help that too many teachers don't know the subject matter that they are teaching since Education is usually (not always) a major for people who couldn't cut it in engineering, math, liberal arts, or even business and who aren't football players with a half-assed "Recreation" degree.

That's a pretty horrible stereotype to perpetuate. Many adults aren't nearly as smart as they were when they were young adults, fresh out of university, and the lack of education displayed in the working world is pretty abhorent at times. I don't think that's just teachers.

I'm not a teacher myself, nor am I related to one....but I do think they get short shrift they don't deserve. And their jobs definitely aren't easy. Particularly since all those engineers, math-whizzes, doctors, and business people are spending so much time on their careers that they don't give adequate attention to raising their children properly...hence dumping their problem kids on those teachers who "can't hack it in the real world".....as well as everyone else living in the same community.

Banshee

 

[Arnwyn]

I'm not a teacher myself, nor am I related to one....but I do think they get short shrift they don't deserve. And their jobs definitely aren't easy. Particularly since all those engineers, math-whizzes, doctors, and business people are spending so much time on their careers that they don't give adequate attention to raising their children properly...hence dumping their problem kids on those teachers who "can't hack it in the real world".....as well as everyone else living in the same community.

And you'd be correct.

We can thank parents (ie. the primary caregivers) in a majority of the situations. There have been a disconcerting number of occasions in which the parents call up and declare that a particular test was "too hard" and that their child must be passed at all costs. Really.

[/hijack]

 

[Teflon Billy]

And you'd be correct.

We can thank parents (ie. the primary caregivers) in a majority of the situations. There have been a disconcerting number of occasions in which the parents call up and declare that a particular test was "too hard" and that their child must be passed at all costs. Really.

[/hijack]

I've lived through that (and I teach hairdressing for god's sake!).

A call from a furious mother of a 19-year old claiming that I shouldn't be testing them on color theory because--and I quote--"Hair Colors are automatic".

I don't really have any clue what she meant by that. As it turns out, neither did she.

When the mom felt that this tack wasn't producing the results desired, she switched up to "You should be testing their instincts, not their math"

She seemd to entirely miss the point that the entire course is "Pass/Fail". I only test the students to see if the material has been learned...the scores themselves are meaningless except as a tool for me to measure if we are ready to move on.

At this point I just went with "She failed the test. She can retake it once. I suggest she study for it this time. She will not graduate if she can't formulate colors".

Luckily I had the backing of the institution in this.

Parents are wierd.

 

[3catcircus]

That's a pretty horrible stereotype to perpetuate. Many adults aren't nearly as smart as they were when they were young adults, fresh out of university, and the lack of education displayed in the working world is pretty abhorent at times. I don't think that's just teachers.

Nope - its a pretty accurate stereotype. Look at how many 21-yr old people know how to: balance a checkbook, make change, or use proper spoken english. It isn't that older adults aren't as "smart" - heck - I haven't had to do a fourier transform in almost 10 years - it is that so-called "graduates" of high school can't do the most basic things. In the 1950s and 1960s, a high school diploma guaranteed you a good job, earning a decent living (plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc.) Then people *had* to go to college and it became viewed as a right and not a privilege. Now - *college* graduates can't do what high schoolers could those many years ago.

I'm not a teacher myself, nor am I related to one....but I do think they get short shrift they don't deserve. And their jobs definitely aren't easy. Particularly since all those engineers, math-whizzes, doctors, and business people are spending so much time on their careers that they don't give adequate attention to raising their children properly...hence dumping their problem kids on those teachers who "can't hack it in the real world".....as well as everyone else living in the same community.

Banshee

It isn't highly educated people too involved with their careers that makes teaching difficult, so much as it is the stoop-sittin', 40-drinkin', no-job-havin', welfare-leechin' dads in jail/moms on crack 30-yr old grandmothers who send their grandkids off to school without providing any discipline or supervision at home.

Of course, when the over-privileged kids feel that they are special and deserve an "A" for doing the most minimal of efforts, that *also* contributes to "Why Johnny can't read" situations.

 

[kingpaul]

There have been a disconcerting number of occasions in which the parents call up and declare that a particular test was "too hard" and that their child must be passed at all costs. Really.

[/hijack]

Heh. A good friend of mine is a math/physics teacher. He got hired in a high school in a fairly upper class neighborhood to teach calculus. He was let go after a year because the parents complained that his calc tests were to hard.

 

[Banshee16]

Nope - its a pretty accurate stereotype. Look at how many 21-yr old people know how to: balance a checkbook, make change, or use proper spoken english. It isn't that older adults aren't as "smart" - heck - I haven't had to do a fourier transform in almost 10 years - it is that so-called "graduates" of high school can't do the most basic things. In the 1950s and 1960s, a high school diploma guaranteed you a good job, earning a decent living (plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc.) Then people *had* to go to college and it became viewed as a right and not a privilege. Now - *college* graduates can't do what high schoolers could those many years ago.



It isn't highly educated people too involved with their careers that makes teaching difficult, so much as it is the stoop-sittin', 40-drinkin', no-job-havin', welfare-leechin' dads in jail/moms on crack 30-yr old grandmothers who send their grandkids off to school without providing any discipline or supervision at home.

Of course, when the over-privileged kids feel that they are special and deserve an "A" for doing the most minimal of efforts, that *also* contributes to "Why Johnny can't read" situations.

That's a stereotype. I'm sorry....but I've lived in some of the wealthier commmunities in Canada, and the "rich kids" of "educated" parents are still horridly behaved in many instances. My family was having the house vandalized by the children of two sets of highly-ranked doctors who lived within a few houses of us. Others burned down the local legion hall, and other community landmarks. They're a continual problem. Many of us were complaining to the police, and the police would intervene, and the parents would say "it's not my kids, no, *my* kids would never do that".

Then, because we'd complained, we became targets for further harassment. During the community meetings, the parents would complain that the police weren't doing their jobs....but then when the police *did* catch a kid, invariably the parents would say "my child has never done something like this before", and would insist they'd discipline the child....then the child would get right back into it a week or two later.

The other community I lived, again, full of doctors, lawyers, university professors, corporate senior managers had the same kinds of problems.

Both were wealthy communities, with well-educated parents, and I lived in those communities for years, and saw the problems just get worse.

In actuality, all that the parents being rich and well-educated meant was that they had better connections to get their kids off scott-free.

I've also seen communities in lower socio-economic status, and sure, there are problems there....but I find the primary difference is that the parents don't have the resources to get their kids off. So there's a higher rate of punishment....

Sorry if I sound a little bitter. I think there are a lot of spoiled rich kids where I used to live who deserve to be sent to juvie. I'm not saying any of the above to brag....just to point out, anecdotally, that it's not just lower socio-economic status families who produce problem children.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Double post

 

[Banshee16]

I've lived through that (and I teach hairdressing for god's sake!).

A call from a furious mother of a 19-year old claiming that I shouldn't be testing them on color theory because--and I quote--"Hair Colors are automatic".

I don't really have any clue what she meant by that. As it turns out, neither did she.

When the mom felt that this tack wasn't producing the results desired, she switched up to "You should be testing their instincts, not their math"

I can laugh about this, because my wife is a stylist, and I've heard this kind of thing before.

It is humourous how many parents spend all their time on their careers, have latch-key kids, and in fact let their kids get lazy, because as parents, they're not around enough to push the kids, and identify problems. They hoist them off on the teachers, then are surprised when their kids get in trouble, and the teachers are the ones instructed to go ahead and pass that kid who scored 40% on his math course, because otherwise, the parent will talk to the principal, and get the teacher suspended.

How often have you seen kids doing class science projects, where it was in fact mommy and daddy who did it, so the kid can win the trophy? I remember back in Grade 9, my brother (who was in grade 8), made a magnetic propelled model train (I think that's what it was).... He was disqualified, because it was claimed that there was no way a grade 8 could do that on his own. Living in the house at the time, I knew he was just very smart, and our parents didn't help in the slightest. However, we knew the kid that did win, and *knew* that his father did the project for him, using parts he brought home from his office. Incidentally, my brother became a very talented engineer.

Way too many parents let their kids get off easy, don't get involved when they should, and then *do* get involved when they shouldn't.

Banshee

 

[Mycanid]

Now, yesterday, I went to a different store, different results. The store i bought it is in a racially tense area between middle eastern-american, european american and african american races. Instead, I put on a suit and tie as if heading to work, knotted my dreads in the way i wear them for a power meeting and went to a store in a more racially blind area on the border of an affluent part of Detroit and a suburb. I explained to the tech person that i didnt get a cd and the wrong card was included in the box, telling him the truth. Ididnt need to speak to any manager, or 4 other managers or the manufacture. He immediately apologized, and exchanged it for the 1950xt within 10 minutes.

Hooray for you sir! Good for you for sticking to your guns and following the 'ole "try and try again" approach.

My papa was the vice pres of a company that advised banks what to invest in and he told me very similiar things to what Ashrum the black advised. Polite but insistent, always going higher up the "ladder". It has worked for me consistently.

Still I thought your idea was pretty savvy ... and it worked! Well done!