Frank Mentzer's Worlds of Empyrea Kickstarter to be Rebooted!

The Kickstarter for Frank Mentzer's Worlds of Empyrea was ambitious, and sadly it didn't seem to gain the traction it needed to raise the $250K it was asking for. Indeed, Kicktraq is currently predicting it won't make its funding goal; so far it has raised just over a fifth of its target. However, all is not lost - because it's being rebooted! (thanks to Terradave for the scoop).

​

The reboot, which will take place on Monday, October 16th, will have a much lower funding goal, quicker delivery time, and expanded PDF offerings. Frank posted the following update:

Greetings all.

We're rebooting the Empyrea Kickstarter.

In my first-ever KS I made several miscalculations, so we're fixing them. The Team have discussed options and we're all set. Here are the highlights:

• Realistic (lower) goal, carefully analyzed for maximum quality and cost-efficiency (alernate printing sources, etc.)
• Realistic delivery time (next Fall, not Summer)
• Expanded Living Campaign online at all levels (not just Nobles)
• Expanded PDF benefits and options for all

Sorry about that, but now we know how to do this right. Thanks again for your support.

So here are some details from the Team.

—Frank

This was followed by an update from Mike Myler, who is handing the social media aspect of the campaign.

Hello everybody! It’s Mike!

In the rush of his lifelong campaign setting being fully realized and shared with the world, Frank’s zeal to make Empyrea have a massive print run with a huge impact got the better of him and bowled me right over. Rightly so—I’ve gotten to sit in on his weekly game, I’ve read the internal documents for it, and it’s a really fantastic place ripe for adventure especially with the huge scope involved. In addition to that a lot of amazing people from the industry came out of the woods to get on board with the project as soon as they got wind of it and did so right up to the night before launch. In the mix of Empyrea being finalized and a widening roster of contributors, the full breadth of Frank’s vision was shadowed by the needs of firming up work agreements and other business concerns.

This last week we’ve worked hard to refine the focus on things and make sure everyone clearly understands the expansive, involved, and frankly ground-breaking gaming phenomenon that Frank has laid out here. It is still a complicated affair—a box set fantasy setting with multiple books and compatibility with 10 RPGs, a medieval campaign world that’s approachable but still filled with fantastic underpinnings he’s spent 40 years refining, all done by an epic team from the industry’s history, an expansive online campaign simultaneously played by citizens and nobles from across the globe—but we’re hoping that it’s clearly presented now and that we can exceed our revised, smaller print run goal to realize Frank’s larger dream.

So, October 16th is the date.

[FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Save[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]​

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I thought Frank Mentzer's name alone would make everyone open their wallets. Guess I was wrong.

I like Frank Mentzer (gamed with him at a convention) and admire his work. I have learned over time, though, that even when I like MOST games by a person, that doesn't mean I like them all. The price of games today - particularly these big ones - are significant enough that I have to have a pretty good idea that I will like them to justify spending that much money.

 

[EthanSental]

Is this Mike Mylar the same that worked on N.O.W. part of WOIN? I was reading up on the system for the cool looking games coming out and noticed the Mike's name.

 

[Morrus]

Is this Mike Mylar the same that worked on N.O.W. part of WOIN? I was reading up on the system for the cool looking games coming out and noticed the Mike's name.

That's him. Though in this case I think - he can correct me if I'm wrong - the social media guy on the project, not one of the writers.

 

[Xaelvaen]

To be honest, requiring NDAs on a project that has already gone to the Kickstarter point comes across as either wanting to play up some nonexistent mysteriousness for marketing purposes or grossly overestimating the value of the project.

I was a part of the original Numenera Kickstarter, and backed high enough to be a beta tester - had to hand mail some signed and printed NDAs to Mr. Cook just to participate, so it's not uncommon at all for Kickstarters to still use NDAs, especially in cases like that. I'd imagine, all larger-named kickstarters have NDAs for their staff, even if there isn't a beta-testing period for the fans/contributors.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

I was a part of the original Numenera Kickstarter, and backed high enough to be a beta tester - had to hand mail some signed and printed NDAs to Mr. Cook just to participate, so it's not uncommon at all for Kickstarters to still use NDAs, especially in cases like that. I'd imagine, all larger-named kickstarters have NDAs for their staff, even if there isn't a beta-testing period for the fans/contributors.

That's fine for a new game and setting (to a point) but this is supposed to have 40 years of actual play behind it. I'm assuming players didn't have to sign an NDA to play in the games years ago so where are the testimonials from long-time players? Where are some convention game summaries and anecdotes? I'd like to see something from people who have experienced this setting and are excited about getting to run something in it themselves. So far we don't have that.

Part of the problem here (and in other places) is that way too many RPG gamers are overly concerned with someone "stealing their idea". The thing is, your idea means pretty much nothing to anyone else. Odds are we've seen something similar before in the last 40+ years. The execution of that idea, say in a nice big box set with poster maps and decent full-color art, and will make you famous/rich/respected etc.

Specifically, what does a setting NDA protect? It can't be the mechanics, because there aren't any that are core to it because they're going to put those in a separate book and for 10 or more different systems!

So I'm left thinking it is there to protect the concept, the idea, the central conceit of the setting - which is precisely what you need to share to get people excited about the thing!

Without that we're left with "Well Frank is awesome and has asked a lot of people to help out" which is not all that great a pitch when it comes to asking people for money. To really get somewhere here I think you're going to have to open it up more - a lot more.

 

[Xaelvaen]

Without that we're left with "Well Frank is awesome and has asked a lot of people to help out" which is not all that great a pitch when it comes to asking people for money. To really get somewhere here I think you're going to have to open it up more - a lot more.

No point of contention in that of course having more information is better. I can't help but think a bit of it stems from the generation. Gygax being kicked from his own company and the generally shady feeling that all the historical information about the early days of DnD could create a sensation of being over-protective about a work, and I can get that sensation.

I'm a bit biased, and not ashamed to admit it - my early DnD years in Greyhawk are the foundation of my gaming experience. Just being a sister continent to Greyhawk, even if it -feels- like Greyhawk, I'm on board, because it'd be new content in a similar vein. That being said, I do hope they find a happy middle ground between protecting their hard work and giving potential customers the needed information to be hooked. It's nice to sell to nostalgia - even better to sell to a wider audience and bring in new people to enjoy the 'old feel' based on its merits.

 

[Vicente]

I thought Frank Mentzer's name alone would make everyone open their wallets. Guess I was wrong.

Well, he created something amazing in the past, but his Kickstarter credentials are zero. And the bar right now for RPGs in Kickstarter that are asking 5 figures or more is very high. Check for example Forbidden Lands (another fantasy Kickstarter that recently funded). Their page gives much more information and better examples, they updated their campaign nearly daily (while Empyrea didn't post a single update for days), and it comes from people who have delivered recently in spades (Coriolis, Tales from the Loop, Mutant Year Zero).

That's the bar for KS right now. Or check for example any Kevin Crawford KS (Godbound, Stars Without Number Revised), that man runs KS as perfect as anyone can run them. They are nearly finished written when he gets to KS (he has delivered all his KS earlier than expected), and he makes the documents of what he is creating public for everyone (backers and non-backers) so people can comment, help him find issues, and to make him accountable for progress. And then he goes beyond that and has stretch goals like making the art he commissioned public domain and the like.

The Empyrea KS felt (at least to me) run by people who don't understand the current times in the RPG crowdfunding scene. They are competing with people like the two examples I posted up there, and they just come short, no matter which famous names are involved on the work.

My 2 cents.

 

[trancejeremy]

I thought Frank Mentzer's name alone would make everyone open their wallets. Guess I was wrong.

Well, the original KS did get $100,000 or so, which isn't exactly shabby. Especially how vague the KS was.

But the thing is, he does have a track record post TSR and frankly, it's not particularly good. Have you seen his Eldritch Entertainment products? They aren't bad, mind you, but I wouldn't call them good, either. Indeed, my guess is we are seeing this because EldEnt's stuff has kinda flopped.

 

[Shasarak]

According to a Kickstarter update this morning Frank appears to have pulled the plug on the project.

As a backer of the original kickstarter I have to say that I am disappointed and on the other hand maybe it is just a 'not yet'.

 

[Xaelvaen]

Yeah, sad to see it pulled. I hope to get some sort of update about where the project is headed otherwise, guess I'll just have to check his site from time to time.