Grading At-Will Powers

[keterys]

especially once you snagged HBO

This highlights well why it doesn't work well - your stats are so spread that you're sacrificing something major to get more than like 2 temp hp out of the power.

Which is why it's not very impressive. You just demanded the build have a good Dexterity, in addition to the Wis and Cha, while Wis does nothing for the paladin except support its powers' secondary effects. Pretty quickly you'll get to a point where you're like "So... if you had just taken Con instead of the Wis to make this build work, you'd have the hp you're getting instead of temp, heal more with every surge, and have an extra surge?"

The more the build gets out of the power, the less arduous it seems. If there's no MAD at all, cause it's not a conflicting stat, then that's the real winner.

 

[Mengu]

And heck, has anyone even played a Battlerager yet? Are they really overpowered?

I've played alongside one, and DM'ed for one. Overpowered is not a good word. Bad design is what I would say. It makes the greatweapon fighter build completely obsolete, and it makes the guardian fighter build questionable, especially if you have a racial Con bonus or gain some other benefit from a high Con (such as being Dragonborn).

 

[Nail]

Since one feat (Untamed Berserker Style) turns Cleave into a conditional Crushing Surge (or unconditional depending on interpretation, link), there probably isn't much point in taking Crushing Surge for a non-battlerager.

..but since said feat is only in Dragon.....who cares?

I play a BRV fighter, and having that feat available might have been cool. Too bad it's not in a WotC book.

So...in this thread are we grading stuff in Dragon mag too? That seems like a waste.

 

[Mengu]

So...in this thread are we grading stuff in Dragon mag too? That seems like a waste.

Depends on your PoV. If you are in RPGA, everything, including Dragon magazine is available for use. Some DM's like to make everything available to their players. Some DM's will limit the books you have access to. I have some players who are perfectly content with the options in the PHB.

I don't think it's a waste, as long as its useful to someone.

 

[yesnomu]

This highlights well why it doesn't work well - your stats are so spread that you're sacrificing something major to get more than like 2 temp hp out of the power.

Which is why it's not very impressive. You just demanded the build have a good Dexterity, in addition to the Wis and Cha, while Wis does nothing for the paladin except support its powers' secondary effects. Pretty quickly you'll get to a point where you're like "So... if you had just taken Con instead of the Wis to make this build work, you'd have the hp you're getting instead of temp, heal more with every surge, and have an extra surge?"

The more the build gets out of the power, the less arduous it seems. If there's no MAD at all, cause it's not a conflicting stat, then that's the real winner.

Well, OK, I forgot the Dex req for HBO. But still, high Wis is good for a Paladin, between power effects and Lay on Hands uses. A Cha/Wis paladin won't have great OAs compared to a Str/Cha one, but they can heal more and many of their powers have greater effects, not just Bolstering. I think my point stands.

Pallys are a bit MAD in general, but that's why they get plate and an extra surge over Fighters.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, paladins just kinda make me sad at the moment with how all over the place they are - I'm kinda hoping that Divine Power (in, what, 6 months?) will clean things up a little.

 

[yesnomu]

Sorc Time! Some of these are pretty neat! Remember that they're all adding a secondary stat to damage. Here's my thoughts:

Acid Orb: Eldritch Blast with (rarely resisted) typed damage and double range. B

Burning Spray: With cloth, getting close to the fight is dangerous, but this will almost certainly be the most damaging Sorc at-will if you can get multiple enemies, and the bonus for Dragon Magic helps avoid attacks. A-? It's very nice, anyway.

Chaos Bolt: Bizarre! You could clear out every minion in the room with this if you get super lucky, and targeting Will and doing psychic damage (ouch w/ Psychic Lock) doesn't hurt either. Of course, if you go Dragon, it's just a more even Spiteful Glamour. B+.

Dragonfrost: A vs. Fort, d8 Eldritch Blast with a push. Unless you really value the push, I'd take Acid Orb over this. C+.

Stormwalk: Nimble Strike with a d8 and targeting Fort. B-.

Overall, not bad! Both power sources have a rather nifty at-will going for them, although Burning Spray is only a bit worse for Wilders. The rest are less inspiring, but at least we don't have another Careful Attack here.

 

[Ulthwithian]

I am currently playing a Human Wrath Invoker in a game, and I chose as my At-Wills Divine Bolts, Grasping Shards, and Vanguard's Lightning.

If I had to drop one (meaning nonhuman), I would drop VL. I have followed the argument about Ray of Frost in this thread, and while I don't necessarily agree with everything there, the general consensus seems to be correct.

Shards is nothing like Ray. As keterys (I think) said, Shards kills Minions just fine. Burst Slow is also much more useful than might be expected. Also, in the '2 creature' issue, Divine Bolts is more flexible than either Burst.

Also, anecdotally, Invokers shred Undead like nobody's business.

 

[keterys]

Sorc Time! Some of these are pretty neat! Remember that they're all adding a secondary stat to damage.

Just so we're clear, that's not like Sly Flourish, it's their substitute for Curse or Quarry damage, that's all.

They definitely get some neat at-wills, though.

 

[keterys]

I'm intending to take a pass through the book that this thread has become, so that I can summarize and recreate it, and also split off a PH2 (and beyond) thread. I'll be going through trying to see if I should adjust any ratings on the front page, and adding ones for, say, Martial Power as I do so, but I'd also like to justify ratings given. I'm thinking of adding a section something like this for the powers - can you let me know if it's useful, not useful, or any suggested changes.

Grade Justifications:

When listing notable advantages and disadvantages of a power I’ll tag each with a number of + or – signs. One (+/-) signifies a minor advantage or disadvantage, two (++/--) moderate, three major, four extreme. These are not intended to be equivalent in any way; a single moderate advantage or disadvantage might outweigh several minor ones and a minor advantage might outweigh a minor disadvantage.

*CLERIC*[sblock]Lance of Faith: B+
Damage – Average
Advantage – Radiant (+), +2 attack bonus to an ally (++)
Disadvantage – Short range (-)
Summary – Lance of Faith is a good staple power that will almost always be helpful for setting up encounter and daily powers, or stronger damage attacks from other allies.

Priest’s Shield: C-
Damage – Average
Perks - +1 AC bonus to adjacent ally (+)
Downsides – position requirement (adjacent) a downside for melee (forsakes flank, sets up area attacks) (--)
Summary – Priest’s Shield is slightly better than a basic attack, but not appreciably. Its bonus is actually minor enough that its chance of mattering is very small and it is easily forgotten.

Righteous Brand: A+
Damage – Average
Perks - +Str bonus to a round of attacks for ally within 5 (++++)
Summary – Righteous Brand is extraordinarily powerful in certain groups for setting up ally attacks. Because it’s a Str attack based on Str, it’s power level is fairly extreme for setting up status effect and large damage attacks, especially at higher level.

Sacred Flame: A-
Damage – Low (-)
Perks – Radiant (+), Saving throw or Cha+Lvl/2 temp to ally within sight (+++)
Downsides – Short range (-)
Summary – Sacred Flame is fantastic for obtaining saving throws for allies, and its temporary hp can be quite considerable compared to the damage output of many creatures.[/sblock]

I'm thinking it would go after what's already there in the first post - so the summary is still intact, but then you can dig deeper.