Hey its a new poll! Do you allow monks in your campaign?

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

I don't use PHB-type monks in my campaign because they just doesn't make sense to me as they are portrayed in the PHB. A psionicist monk-type or a sorceror-monk type would work for me, but the monk as a fighter-ish type doesn't work at all for me.

IMC Weapons are always an advantage to No Weapons and the only thing that changes that is magic (or psionics).

 

[BronzeDragon]

Re: Monky Monk Monk

You can find equivalents in every society for every class.

That is probably the worst generalization I ever heard.

You are basically saying all societies fit a particular mold and thus can be easily categorized.

If you didn't notice, people have been trying to do that since the sixteenth century and have failed miserably at it.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Re: Re: Monky Monk Monk

That is probably the worst generalization I ever heard.

You are basically saying all societies fit a particular mold and thus can be easily categorized.

If you didn't notice, people have been trying to do that since the sixteenth century and have failed miserably at it.

I see your response as taking the exact reverse of what he was trying to say.

 

[BronzeDragon]

So why is one a problem and not the other?

The problem is that, in my worlds at least, personal perfection is not something the clergy aspires to. They want (like most western early and late middle-ages monks) understanding of their god, not of themselves.

The aristotelic approach, of the early and late middle-ages in europe, to the problem of the constitution of god was not built for personal satisfaction. It was an integral way of how religion treated itself in the middle-ages.

So the eastern Monk, with his emphasis on self-perfection, is WAY out of place in anything loosely inspired by european late middle-ages society. Not even with the advent of priestly magic can you justify a class of people who sought to better themselves in such a society.

While you can certainly say some monks desired personal power, you can certainly not generalize this to create an order of monks who did so. Not, at least, in a world based in western european late middle-ages.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

As a matter of fact, it appears to me that it is your gaming style that forces groups into molds.

Monks can only behave like X.
Clerics can only behave like Y.

Etc....

 

[BronzeDragon]

In a world populated with wizards and sorcerers, fire breathing dragons, dead that walk and cast spells, alternate planes of existance, magical items that restore health or can lay waste to cities, I've never seen a problem with Monks.

Strange. You just gave us an almost-perfect description of how the european late middle-ages saw the world of the fantastic.

Except, that is, for the eastern monks.

 

[BronzeDragon]

Re: Re: Re: Monky Monk Monk

I see your response as taking the exact reverse of what he was trying to say.

If that is the case, I fully apologize.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Strange. You just gave us an almost-perfect description of how the european late middle-ages saw the world of the fantastic.

Except, that is, for the eastern monks.

I'm not sure about your tone, so I'm just going to assume you're being playfully sarcastic. Like me.

Not so strange. Not really. The difference is that I am, and so are my players, FAR more educated than any typical middle-ages person. This expands consciousness and cognitive abilities and allows us to see things outside of a narrow perspective. It also exposes us to ideas that others who travel no farther than a days walk from their homes, have little news from the ouside world, and are a very, very superstitious lot to begin with would not otherwise be exposed to.

As such,.... Nope. No problem with Monks. Just another supernatural dude doing wierd things that other "normal" people can't.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

The problem is that, in my worlds at least, personal perfection is not something the clergy aspires to. They want (like most western early and late middle-ages monks) understanding of their god, not of themselves.

The aristotelic approach, of the early and late middle-ages in europe, to the problem of the constitution of god was not built for personal satisfaction. It was an integral way of how religion treated itself in the middle-ages.

So the eastern Monk, with his emphasis on self-perfection, is WAY out of place in anything loosely inspired by european late middle-ages society. Not even with the advent of priestly magic can you justify a class of people who sought to better themselves in such a society.

While you can certainly say some monks desired personal power, you can certainly not generalize this to create an order of monks who did so. Not, at least, in a world based in western european late middle-ages.

Ah, but here I think you are really missing one big thing. The standard setting for D&D may by Europe, but the standard religious structure is in no way like Europe. The polytheistic religions of D&D is more like the ancient greek religion than the European monotheism. (Not that it is really much like the greek system, just much closer). In D&D the better you know your god, the more powerful you become. Thus a 20th level cleric is more powerful than a 10th level cleric, who is more powerful than a first level cleric.

If you want to have a world where monks are boxed into a non-personal life, fine.

But if you want to say that other people's games are missing the mark because they allow monks, I am going to strongly disagree.

If you use the standard style religions, then you have to bend over backwards to argue that monks would not grow in power as they grew in knowledge.

 

[BronzeDragon]

As a matter of fact, it appears to me that it is your gaming style that forces groups into molds.

Monks can only behave like X.
Clerics can only behave like Y.

Etc....

Appearances are often deceiving.

I offer complete freedom of interpretation for INDIVIDUAL role-players.

But assembling a complete order of people who think non-standard goes against my inner feeling of how my setting should be built.