Homebrewed PRC for a melee warlock

[Dandu]

only issue I have is that a warlock doesn't know any spells, and Craft Contingent Spell isn't a magic item, it's literally a spell effect, so a warlock, by literal reading of the rules, can't use Craft Contingent Spell - he doesn't know any spells.

Imbue Item (Su): A warlock of 12th level or higher can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat). He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn’t know or can’t cast.
If the check succeeds, the warlock can create the item as if he had cast the required spell. If it fails, he cannot complete the item. He does not expend the XP or gp costs for making the item; his progress is simply arrested. He cannot retry this Use Magic Device check for that spell until he gains a new level.

[h=2]Craft Contingent Spell[/h]( Complete Arcane, p. 77)

[Item Creation]

You know how to attach semipermanent spells to a creature and set them to activate under certain conditions.
[h=4]Prerequisite[/h]Caster level 11th
[h=4]Benefit[/h]You can make contingent any spell that you know. Crafting a contingent spell takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price (spell level × caster level × 100 gp). To craft a contingent spell, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half the base price. Some spells incur extra costs in material components or XP (as noted in their descriptions), which must be paid when the contingent spell is created. See Contingent Spells, page 139, for more information.

 

[Nezkrul]

"You can make contingent any spell that you know." AND "even if he does not know the spells required to make an item" AND "If the check succeeds, the warlock can create the item"- this feat doesn't make a magic item, it literally makes a spell; Warlocks don't know spells, therefore they can't use this feat. In most if not all other circumstances I would agree with you, but not on this instance due to strict reading of the rules.

 

[Dandu]

"You can make contingent any spell that you know." AND "even if he does not know the spells required to make an item" AND "If the check succeeds, the warlock can create the item"- this feat doesn't make a magic item, it literally makes a spell; Warlocks don't know spells, therefore they can't use this feat. In most if not all other circumstances I would agree with you, but not on this instance due to strict reading of the rules.

Tell me, Nezkrul, what does an [Item Creation] feat create? Please back up your answer with a text citation from a rules source.

 

[Nezkrul]

An item creation feat lets a spellcaster create a magic item of a certain type.

Is a spell a magic item?

 

[Dandu]

from Chapter 5: Magic Items

New Types of Items

The basic types of magic items described in the Dungeon Master's Guide -- armor, weapons, potions, scrolls, rods, rings, staffs, wands, and wondrous items -- are not necessarily the only types of magic item possible. In Faerûn, the world of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, magic tattoos, magic runes, and contingent spells are common magic items, each crafted in the same manner as a standard magic item and requiring its own unique item creation feat (Tattoo Magic, Inscribe Rune, and Craft Contingent Spell). Rune magic is described in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, magic tattoos are described in Races of Faerûn, and contingent spells appear in the Unapproachable East sourcebook (and are included in Complete Arcane for use in any D&D campaign).

 

[Nezkrul]

In your interpretation, Warlocks know every spell and can therefore magically take the feat to make them contingent spells, in my interpretation Warlocks do not know any spells to make contingent upon themselves so they can't use the feat. What they can do is make a staff of contingency, and use scrolls or other wands of spells on themselves that they wish to make contingent; but IMO they can't use that one feat. Moving on

Also, I'm of the opinion that a Warlock that doesn't have any ranks in the appropriate knowledges and/or spellcraft skill should not be able to make any magic items that use spells from a class that would require such skills to even know said spell exists.

 

[Dandu]

In your interpretation, Warlocks know every spell and can therefore magically take the feat to make them contingent spells, in my interpretation Warlocks do not know any spells to make contingent upon themselves so they can't use the feat. What they can do is make a staff of contingency, and use scrolls or other wands of spells on themselves that they wish to make contingent; but IMO they can't use that one feat. Moving on

No.

First, you must admit that Contingent Spells are magical items This is explicitly stated in the rules I showed you just now.

So tell me, how does a warlock create anything under your interpretation? If a Warlock cannot craft a Contingent Spell because he does not know magic spells, he also cannot scribe scrolls, craft wands, or many any other magical item... which defeats the entire point of the ability, which is for the warlock to be able to "use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat)."

And warlocks do not magically know every spell in my interpretation. Please avoid using straw men in your argument. The Warlock must "substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn’t know or can’t cast." As you can see, it is all contingent on their Use Magic Device check.

Craft Contingent Spell works on warlocks, and warlocks can craft magic items. If you disagree, then would you kindly tell me what happens when a warlock takes Scribe Scroll and tries to scribe a scroll?

Also, I'm of the opinion that a Warlock that doesn't have any ranks in the appropriate knowledges and/or spellcraft skill should not be able to make any magic items that use spells from a class that would require such skills to even know said spell exists.

Warlocks get Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Religion, and Spellcraft. My glaivelock has 12 ranks in both knowledges, and 10 ranks in Spellcraft. Do you consider this sufficient to know about the first and second level arcane spells that he made using Craft Contingent Spell?

If not, what skills do you think are appropriate, and how many ranks in them would a character need to identify basic magical spells?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Dandu's interpretation isn't that a Warlock "knows" every spell, but can emulate any spell for magic item crafting as per the Imbue Item class feature.

Keep in mind other item creation feats (like Craft Wand) also have the wording "You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know." Brew Potion has the phrase, as does Scribe Scroll.

The Warlock's Imbue Item ability thus doesn't work unless it's understood to bypass that "spell that you know" phrase. Which it explicitly does bypass as per the description.

 

[Dandu]

Thank you kindly for stating it so eloquently.

 

[Nezkrul]

what type of "magic item" is a contingent spell?

Spell Trigger? nope, Spell Completion? nada. This is why I say Warlocks can't use Craft Contingent Spell feat, because the description of the feat specifically says they can make contingent spells they know. The result is a contingent spell, not a spell-completion magic item (that you can use magic device or spellcraft on), nor a spell-trigger item (that you can also use magic device on); but a basically permanent duration contingent SPELL (not a magic item). He can use Imbue item on other items, IMO, but not Craft Contingent Spell because of the wording. You keep telling me to prove something to you, I don't flipping have to, IT'S MY OPINION guy. Incase you don't understand, IMO means "in my opinion" and you're arguing against my opinion AFTER I already said I agree to disagree with you, MOVING ON; therefore you are now trolling my post. So either, contribute or GTFO; thanks

As you can see, I never brought up the "RAW" or "RAI" tags, nor did I attack anything about your EG character, I simply made a statement, about my opinion, about needing ranks in skills to know about spells for imbue item to even work anyways, because Use Magic Device is not Knowledge. Then you took it personally.