D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[tetrasodium]

I think 3.5 handled the concept pretty well simply because PrCs allowed a narrowly defined mechanical narrative or thematic niche to be focused on with unique prereqs that could make taking a bunch of them require enough investments that potential synergistic gains were offset by the buyin enough to avoid trivial godliness.

Now in 5e I'm not sure that subclasses have enough power budget to do the concept justice without being free to revise core class mechanics. You can see that lack of power budget pretty clearly in the Arcane Archer subclass where the options it brings are just kinda meh if the GM doesn't do a lot of lifting via magic items or something to finish it. That could have been avoided if AA had replaced the extra attack chain with something on theme, but subclasses don't have that level of influence over base classes.

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

To many, 5e has felt like a step backwards for the swordmage.

"To many" are often weasel words and certainly are in this instance. I highly doubt "many" care about the swordmage at all.

 

[Kurotowa]

Magical effects.

Like maybe it throws sparks in the target's eyes, or opens a crack in the earth under them, or doing an air cutter.

In mechanical terms would that be, "Disorient them so your next attack is easier", "Knock them prone", and "Attack with increased reach"? Because two of those are already Maneuvers; Distracting Strike and Trip Attack. And you could probably do the third without too much trouble.

So at least for you, and it's important to note that the number of different ideas of what a swordmage or spellblade should be are multitudinous, it sounds like what you want is mechanically a Battle Master Fighter. Just with a complete magical reskin for the flavor and aesthetic. Which is something it's entirely possible to do, and with much less trouble than reinventing the wheel with a new subclass.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd like to see a swordmage that mixes combat and spell casting with subclasses starting at level 1 to specialise your focus.

• Death Knight. Skilled with necromancy, adds proficiency with heavy armour.
• Eldritch Archer. Skilled with bows and delivering magic with imbued arrows.
• Abjurant Champion. A damage mitigation master with ablative force fields protecting him and and others.

Mixing spells and martial attacks is important, but I also think they should have ways to spend their spell slots on things tied to their focus. This can be imbuing their weapons with various damage types, perhaps subclasses like death knights get a bonus effect if they use necrotic damage, like preventing healing to those they hit, or crippling them in some way which inflicts a penalty. Abjurant champion could spend spell slots to throw up shields blocking damage or providing AC or inflicting disadvantage or something.

 

[Vaalingrade]

"To many" are often weasel words and certainly are in this instance. I highly doubt "many" care about the swordmage at all.

So someone can pounce and attack them for not directly stating it was their opinion and not universal? Weasel words aren't just suggested but required 'round these parts.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So at least for you, and it's important to note that the number of different ideas of what a swordmage or spellblade should be are multitudinous, it sounds like what you want is mechanically a Battle Master Fighter. Just with a complete magical reskin for the flavor and aesthetic. Which is something it's entirely possible to do, and with much less trouble than reinventing the wheel with a new subclass.

Or.

Or we can do a new subclass with actually different abilities instead of palming it off to a reskin that's a coin toss that the DM will actually let you do.

 

[Pedantic]

I think the easiest solution is to find some set of restrictions that allow for the class to cast 1 action cantrips as a bonus action, possibly by delaying the level they get Extra Attack or cutting the list of cantrips aggressively, and then adding riders to either melee weapon attacks or cantrips based on hitting and/or damaging a target with the other.

That's a different niche than smiting (which is primarily an action multiplication effect and probably overtuned by 5e standards already), offers stuff for the whole action economy and gives you design space to do subclass stuff in.

 

[Kurotowa]

Or we can do a new subclass with actually different abilities instead of palming it off to a reskin that's a coin toss that the DM will actually let you do.

It's your prerogative to do so if you wish. Me, I try to avoid retreading the same mechanical ground when a reskin will suffice. Not only is it a lot more effort, but it's impossible to avoid comparisons as to whether the new entry is strictly better or worse than the old one, and that encourages power creep unless the original version was deeply flawed. (See: Undying vs Undead Warlock.)

I'd love to hear other people's responses to my questions. After all, I do love playing gish types, and I've never been entirely happy with most of the options in 5e. At least, not before the PHB'24 revisions. But if all we're going to do is reinvent the Battle Master, I'll just play a Battle Master.

 

[mellored]

Like maybe it throws sparks in the target's eyes, or opens a crack in the earth under them, or doing an air cutter.

So Blinding Smite, Staggering Smite, and Zephyr Stike?

IMO:
Paladin, Oath of Arcane.

Level 3:
Devoted Arcane: You may use Int in place of Cha for your Paladin abilities and spell casting.
Arcane Armor: when not wearing Armor and having one hand empty, your AC is equal to 10+Int+Dex.
Elemental Smite: When you use Divine Smite, you can choose between Fire, Cold, or Electric damage instead of Radiant.
Arcane Adept: You learn some Arcane spells.

Channel Divinity
Aegis of Shielding: If an ally within 30' of you is hit by an attack, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage by 3 times your Paladin level.
Aegis of Assault: when a creature within 30' of you hits another creature, you can use your reaction to teleport next to the attacking creature and make a melee attack against it.

Level 7: Aegis of Warding: when a creature within 30' is about to make a saving throw, you can use your reaction to teleport within 10' of it. The creature gains the befits from your Aura of Protection for the save.

Level 15: Your Aegis now works at 60'

 

[Neonchameleon]

"To many" are often weasel words and certainly are in this instance. I highly doubt "many" care about the swordmage at all.

5e has had a lot of attenpts at the "gish" archetype mixing melee and magic. Notably the Eldritch Knight, the Arcane Trickster, the Valour and Swords Bards, the Pact of the Blade warlock, the Hexblade warlock, and the bladesinger. And possibly more I've forgotten. And none have quite landed in the way the 4e swordmage did because the swordmage weaved things together.