D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[Horwath]

Arcane trickster and Eldritch knight should get the ax.

Then make dedicated 2 arcane half caster classes based on the concept.

1/3rd casting is just bad.
Higher level spells come too little too late for most campaigns and just eat into martial part of the class budget.

also, half casters should get spell levels at the same rate as full casters but with cap on 5th level and reduced spell slot number.

I.E:

 

[CapnZapp]

Hm. I thought the "One D&D" moniker was dropped some time ago.

Are we talking about the 2024 revision of D&D 5th Edition or some other, hypothetical, game?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Arcane trickster and Eldritch knight should get the ax.

Then make dedicated 2 arcane half caster classes based on the concept.

1/3rd casting is just bad.
Higher level spells come too little too late for most campaigns and just eat into martial part of the class budget.

Meanwhile there's some powerful stuff at low levels that was never meant to go on a tank. Shield, Absorb Elements I'm looking at you.

I also want to see more done with the Pact Magic chassis

 

[Horwath]

Meanwhile there's some powerful stuff at low levels that was never meant to go on a tank. Shield, Absorb Elements I'm looking at you.

I also want to see more done with the Pact Magic chassis

Absorb elements is same no matter the user, half damage from one energy instance.

shield can be problematic if you use only dumbest of monsters or you just have EK soloing encounters?

as soon as EK uses Shield, you must redirect other attacks to other PCs, effect that the tank really does not want to see.
Tank role is to soak up attacks, as much as possible.
in most cases, shield will turn one attack per round from hit to miss, that is it.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Let's first start by clarifying terms. Do you want a swordmage that alternates spells and weapon strikes, or do you want a swordmage that imbues their weapon strikes with something that could loosely be defined as magic?

I think the answer for that is different for everyone. I've seen people who prefer the alternating spells and weapon strikes, but to me that's just a wizard / fighter multiclass.

I personally prefer the idea of a warrior who imbues their weapon strikes with spells, but that niche got moved onto the Paladin in 5e. So in theory arcane or elemental paladin subclasses might work, but that doesn't fit with how WotC themes them, so it can't happen.

An alternative could be something like the arcane archer in mechanics, either as a subclass or full class. With a pool of points to fuel their strikes.

In 4e, the swordmage thematically got moved towards elementalism, with genasi being the archetypical swordmages. That's something I really loved, and would want to see return.

 

[Horwath]

I think the answer for that is different for everyone. I've seen people who prefer the alternating spells and weapon strikes, but to me that's just a wizard / fighter multiclass.

Yeah, fighter/wizard has few viable options and all all 1-2 level cheese dips

it's fighter 1 for heavy armor, Con saves and some self-healing, maybe level 2 if you want to sacrifice 1 whole level of spells, but now that is purged in 2024 as there is no 2 spell Actions unless you are EK and rightfully so.

for dip in wizard it's 2 levels of abjurer or warmage and continuing with EK forward. Fighter being 1st level OFC.


having fighter6/wizard 6 instead of fighter 12 or wizard 12 is a very bad character in mechanic sense.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Absorb elements is same no matter the user, half damage from one energy instance.

Yes - but the tanks tend to have more HP and more non-spell defensive tech.

shield can be problematic if you use only dumbest of monsters or you just have EK soloing encounters?

as soon as EK uses Shield, you must redirect other attacks to other PCs, effect that the tank really does not want to see.
Tank role is to soak up attacks, as much as possible.
in most cases, shield will turn one attack per round from hit to miss, that is it.

That depends on positioning, environment, and other abilities. For example does the EK also have the Sentinel feat or a choke point? If you're in a dungeon the EK might not be that easy to avoid.

 

[TwoSix]

I think the easiest solution is to find some set of restrictions that allow for the class to cast 1 action cantrips as a bonus action, possibly by delaying the level they get Extra Attack or cutting the list of cantrips aggressively, and then adding riders to either melee weapon attacks or cantrips based on hitting and/or damaging a target with the other.

That's a different niche than smiting (which is primarily an action multiplication effect and probably overtuned by 5e standards already), offers stuff for the whole action economy and gives you design space to do subclass stuff in.

This is how Kibblestasty' Spellblade handles it, which is my preferred version of the Magus/Swordmage archetype.

It's a half-caster, can cast leveled spells as a bonus action that can be used as a "weapon smite" at 2nd level. At 5th level, that ability upgrades to cantrips (but only cantrips on the spellblade list, so no BB/GFB shenanigans). Then there are upgrades available at 11th and 17th that keep damage competitive with EB+AB warlock (roughly 10 damage per tier per hit).

My favorite variation in this implementation is the Spellblade Aegis, which lets them sacrifice spell slots at the start of the day for warlock invocation type buffs that last all day.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Elf only. And they can wear heavy armor.

 

[Shardstone]

Laserllama Magus class is the best spellblade class and its free.It solves all the problems brought up in this thread and has been olaytested a ton.