Immortals Handbook - Ascension Discussion

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK!

Howdy bigg!

Hope you're hale and hearty!

Not too bad amigo, hope you are faring well yourself?

I have a couple of questions for you.

Fire away, and thanks to Ltheb for stepping in while I was absent.

1) Would Ultimate Weapon Focus cancel out Thelemic Damage Induction? I'm assuming it would with the attack being transcendental in nature and the defence being cosmic.

As Ltheb noted, the two don't really interact. One is about hitting and the other is about damage.

2) Does Sophism give you the ability to ignore only magic (as the ability table states) or the ability to ignore any attack (as the entry states)?

Ah, the entry* is correct. Sophism basically allows you to change reality if your Will can supercede the attack.

*NB. Just fixed it in the table.

If it can cancel out any attack, would this still be overcome by Ultimate Weapon Focus? Again I would guess that it would (otherwise it's not very ultimate!)

In situations where two abilities (of the same tier - in this case Transcendental) seem to conflict (especially absolutes) then consider that they cancel each other out.

I actually just added this at the bottom of the relevant Tables.

Cheers!

Happy to help!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again!

Thanks Ltheb. The explanation of Thelemic Damage Induction makes a lot of sense. The character with UWF maybe couldn't do any damage to them directly but other abilities he might have, such as Anaretic, should still work because he would still make contact. (I'm assuming that Thelemic Damage Induction doesn't cast its protective blanket over artifacts as well). It also makes TDI a good way to withstand the onslaught of a real combat monster and allow your character to make good their escape.

As far as Sophism goes I'm hoping it only covers magic attacks. Given that the ability is tied to a character's wisdom score it would make sense to give it to a sidereal with the wisdom portfolio (or double portfolio). Certainly with the double porfolio, which generates such huge wisdom scores for sidereals, this could make Sophism akin to 'total and perpetual invulnerability' if it covers any kind of attack, magical or otherwise. If it's just magic attacks that can be ignored then at least another approach can be used to deal with the character (maybe even that combat monster with UWF!) It would also seem to make sense because magic itself is a way of altering reality. Sophism would then give the recipient the ablity to deny that reality altering effect (at least as far as it would affect them).

A physical assault could be seen as reality altering (warhammer impacts head of enemy, head flattened, reality for victim definitely altered) but its a bit more direct and down to earth. As such I reckon it should be impossible to disbelieve physical attacks or actions. It's just too open to abuse otherwise. Think of Reed Richards and Galactus for example. Reed (the player) decides that he has no choice other than to use the ultimate nullifier. He pulls the trigger and...nothing happens. Galactus (the DM) uses his Sophism ability to disbelieve Richards pulling the trigger. Lots of sulky players accusing the DM of abusing his power. And that"s only if the DM uses Sophism. Lord knows what would happen if the players got a hold of it! The DM would have to send in an entire army of Neutronium Golems to get them back into line!

The problem with Sophism being only about magical attacks is the potential confusion of what constitutes a magical attack...theres a whole gray area there: what about summoned monsters, what about magic weapons and their special effects, what about spells that affect the target indirectly, like Earthquake.

As for Galactus, he doesn't have the Sophism power.

With Reed Richards challenging Galactus, I think we need to chalk that up to a number of things: 1) Galactus hubris, 2) A Universe destroying MacGuffin.

Ultra-High Level Cosmic Campaigns may be a quagmire of absolutes cancelling each other out. From what we have seen with 3.5 and the Immortals Handbook, as I suspected its virtually impossible to balance after a certain point (I guesstimate ECL 200 or thereabouts). Especially problematic are multiple Transcendental or multiple Omnific powers in use.

Hopefully with 4E I can make even the Time Lord games balanced and playable rather than just weird and wonderful.

 

[bigg2006]

Thanks for the feedback UK!

Glad to know you're okay. I'm fine and dandy at the moment. I've got a nice long holiday coming up. Nothing quite like it to bouy your spirits!

I see your point about defining what constitutes a magical attack. I'll just have to be very careful about who I give Sophism to. You mentioned that this ability allows you to change reality if your will save can supercede the attack. Does this replace the will saving throw against an opponent's level that's in the current entry? If it does, it seems much more usable.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

New Ascension Beta update on the way tomorrow night. I could probably have updated tonight but I have been spending too much of the past 36 hours reading over the 4E previews (sorry) from DDXP. Also I am working tonight and I better get an hours catnap before I start (top tip: if you work nightshift, don't get up at 8am that day).

Edit: Okay, just updated. I'll update again next week and then the final version will be the following weekend 15th/16th March.

This update has about 1000 minor changes, next week I'll have the remaining changes and the week after will be the rest of the art.

 

[dante58701]

Don't forget to remove the size limitations and add the "SEE IN DARKNESS" ability for deities with the Darkness portfolio.

 

[Alzrius]

One thing I noticed, U_K, is that Transmortality is a supernatural ability; this should probably be changed to extraordinary, since otherwise dead magic zones would allow you to permanently kill anything in them.

Table 4-6: New Epic Feats notes that the prerequisites for Superior Sunder are "Greater Sunder, Str 25." However, the listing for Greater Sunder notes that the prerequisites are just Str 25. Moreover, the description for Superior Sunder in Table 4-6 is the description for Greater Sunder, copied there.

Regarding the various [Effect] powers, how long do some of them last? Beam, Blast, Breath, and Immolation are quite clearly instantaneous. However, I'm less certain regarding the duration of Blood, Hand, Storm, Strike, and Wrath. Does Storm, for example, last until the deity stops using it? Or does it last for a set number of rounds and then end automatically? Or is it instantaneous?

For the Greater Aura divine ability, the text for "sleep" says that those affected are unable to act, other than defend themselves, for 1d4 rounds. This is pretty clearly in error, unless they're sleep-fighting to defend themselves.

Table 4-11: Divine Abilities notes that the prerequisites for Moderate Eradication are "Light Eradication, Str 40." However, the listing for Moderate Eradication notes that the prerequisites are just Str 40.

Table 4-14: Cosmic Abilities notes that the prerequisites for Heavy Eradication are "Moderate Eradication, Str 40." However, the listing for Heavy Eradication notes that the prerequisites are Moderate Eradication, Str 70.

The Superior Critical Divine Ability notes that it quadruples critical threat range. It then lists an example, saying that a weapon that scores a critical threat on a 20 now has a range of 16-20. In fact, this is a quintupling, not a quadrupling. A quadrupled threat range would be 17-20.

 

[Ajoxer]

Hey, was hoping to reiterate the question I had about where it'd be possible to get the Beta, or if that's already come and gone, and I'll still need to be waiting until the 15th and 16th, knock on wood.

I'm doing an epic game currently, involving the idea that reaching epic levels requires an infusion of Planar energy, hoping to use the Immortals book as a way to add some new fun to the game.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Ajoxer mate!

Hey, was hoping to reiterate the question I had about where it'd be possible to get the Beta, or if that's already come and gone, and I'll still need to be waiting until the 15th and 16th, knock on wood.

I'm doing an epic game currently, involving the idea that reaching epic levels requires an infusion of Planar energy, hoping to use the Immortals book as a way to add some new fun to the game.

The weekend of the 15th/16th it will be on sale (the pdf), whether the last of the art is finished or not. If not I will update (the onsale pdf) within a week or two.

As to your game, it should be relatively straightforward to approximate some portfolios with 'planar energy', some more than others I suspect.

Edit: Meant to say thanks to dante and Alzrius for the errata...*goes off to fix it now*.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

The Transient Ability Ultimate Weapon Specialization has the same descriptive text as Ultimate power attack (Your blows are impossibly powerful), and yet, does nothing to even make your blows powerful... Perhaps they should have slightly different descriptive texts
The Cosmic Power Chimerical still talks about combining your music with others when it should talk about shape-shifting awesomeness...
The Table description for the Divine ability Gravitas says the DCs for your abilities increase each round, but the text says that it applies to your spells. Which is it?
That was all I noticed erring in the Powers section. I might get back later after I go through the Portfolios section.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Ok, here's what I saw after skimming through the portfolios. [Sblock]
Charity (Prophet) (Single/Double): Divine Custodian - What exactly does this mean, and how does it work? It sounds neat but is vague.
Death (Greater Deity) (Single/Double): Negative Energy Absorption - Not all negative energy effects drain levels. Mechanically, won't matter since, as an undead, you are already healed by the non-level draining effects...
Disease (First One) (Double): Transgenic - Works differently than the Transient power of the same name. Should probably have a different name, or change the transient power to prevent confusion.
Entropy (Dominion Section): Shouldn't create planar/dimensional cities, but rather planar/dimensional holes in the ground. (It says cities, but that seems entirely inappropriate given the 'favored place')
Evil (Evil Domain): The Epic spells should probably be removed; Hellball and Damnation might be cool but it makes the list look odd. (Since few others have epic spells).
Fear (Appearance Section) (Single/Double): Lists a will save, but DC is unwritten.
Labor (Dominion Section) (Layer): Sinister is misspelled, and the text is also unfinished.
Luck (Prophet) (Single: Blur - It says 20% as per displacement, but displacement grant 50%. Should be as per the spell blur.
Nature (Demeanor Section) (Double): This is not finished.
Sword Portfolio (Greater Deity) (Double): Sword Absorption - How long does this last? Is it intended to be permanent?
Elf Portfolio (Dominion Section): Plane - What the heck is this even saying? Perhaps it should read 'Your layer dominates an entire plane.' (and perhaps going on to talk about some elves or something)
Revenge (Greater Deity) (Single/Double): BloodstainedSoul - Should have a space. ("Bloodstained Soul")
Science (Dominion Section) (Layer): There is no space at the end of the first sentence, and no capital 'A' begining the next. (And the next sentence shouldn't start with 'and'; I would just replace the periods with a comma and make it one sentence)
Sky Portfolio: The grey boxes of the tables (and in the appearance section) are not aligned vertically.
Stoicism: Two things: 1. The Double Portfolio Demeanor section is not finished. 2. There are two 'Dominion' Sections!
Strength (Dominion Section): Why would a god of strength want a planar city? Why not a planar Gym or Arena?
Sun (Old One) (Single): Dark Pariah - There are no 'Dark' based spells... You mean darkness right?
Theivery (First One) (Double): Sneak and Destroy - The description isn't finished.
War (Greater Deity) (Single): Warrior's Soul - The 'Always Active' listing on the table is not spaced correctly.
Wealth (Old One) (Double): Soniferous - Has the same text as the Soniferous listing above it, should probably say "Increase the value of one artifact eightfold (triple its power)".
[/sblock]